People complained so freaking hard about templates in legion I doubt they will try to do experiment something relevant again.
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Dear Ishmael…
Oh, nice ad hominem attack. Do you know what fallacies are?
Do you know people only post with one toon?
Do you know that I have all classes at 120? But don’t want to grind M+ all day on all of them to just have a fighting chance in random BGs and try to cap conquest weekly.
Do you know the elites are a smaller Group than in MoP? The casuals? I am an average pvper who misses the old days of MoP pvp. I am a representative of a much larger group of WoW pvpers are have gone missing. I have to have a 2k achievement to have a valid opinion on pvp? Dumb.
Why should anyone care about anything other than my ideas and questions? You don’t have to be a mythic raider to have an opinion on the removal of master loot.
Grow up, mentally. Try something hard like answer a question or make a claim and then support it with reasons. Then defend your idea when it is criticized.
Iirc to had to do with the stats they gave with the templates. But regardless limited pve ilvl would solve the issue without templates.
I don’t necessarily think barriers to entry are inherently bad. I think there should be a bIt of a barrier in order for it to feel meaningful.
To me it made sense before to get better pvp progression you had to pvp. Your reward for your time commitment was not getting blown up right away in bgs and an edge over pve geared people in the open world. For a casual like myself that was a huge incentive for me to pvp.
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I liked when you bought your pvp items with honor. It felt much more enjoyable than the current pvp loot system. There was something very satisfying about saving up your honor to get that piece you needed. Yes it took days of grinding BGs to get your full set but that’s kind of the point play the game.
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It was one of the reasons, the other one I remember was that gear was no longer relevant, you couldn’t feel your “progression” in PvP because everyone was in equal ground.
Templates had flaws but it balanced PvP to the point you were not able to get facerolled by most classes. You definitely wouldn’t see a 950k HP tank one shotting you in legion like it is happening right now.
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Actually dont think it does need anything of the sort , what it need is 
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Better thoughts put into trinkets overall so that no PVE trinket is way better than the pvp ones
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A way to farm pvp gear at the same ilvl pve can …If someone can spam M+ to gear up , someone should be able to spam some sort of pvp content to gear up AT THE SAME PACE .
BFA Almost has it right …outside the 2 points i mentioned above …
Let’s just assume all of the things you posted are good suggestions. In fact, let’s say they’re GREAT suggestions.
Couple those GREAT suggestions, with all of the GREAT feedback this community gives the Devs about the state of PvP.
Now stare into the dumpster where all those things get thrown by the Devs.
You’ll find anything I might have posted here in that dumpster too. But I appreciate you asking me with an open mind. You and I could probably make a difference… in a game where it mattered.
I’m sure the PvP-only population is healthy, but it doesn’t change the fact that PvP content pales in comparison to PvE and very, very, very rarely has any impact on the direction of the game. Each expansion, or hell even each patch, the majority of content is PvE focused. You have raids, dungeons, M+ seasons, new zones, even dailies and solo content all taking the spotlight. I don’t recall even once was there a patch that focused solely on new PvP content since the introduction of BGs in vanilla.
People are free to play the way they want but that doesn’t change the status of PvP as a sidequest. I exclusively play Mario Party for the mini games, and those are ironically an even more prominent part of the game relative to PvP in WoW. If you enjoy being PvP exclusive, by all means knock yourself out. But it’s just silly to expect it to have the same attention when WoW is so clearly a PvE game with a tacked on PvP mode. Might as well ask Blizz to devote time balancing battle pets.
An ad hominem occurs when a person makes an unrelated attack on the speaker’s character. It’s not an ad hominem to point out that you don’t even play the game because it is directly relevant to your credibility. If I go up to a doctor and opine on how best to treat butt cancer, it is not an ad hominem for him to respond by asking why someone without medical treatment is offering medical opinions.
Not every stupid idea in the world is worthy of refutation. Uninformed opinions, like yours, do not require refutation.
Speaking of fallacies, nice straw man there:
A straw man fallacy occurs when a speaker gives the impression that he is responding when he is in fact refuting an argument that was never made. I never commented on your cheevo score or suggested that you need to have 2k arena rating if that is what you meant. I merely pointed to your lack of game activity on your profile and asked:
The point stands. Why should I engage in debate over something like resilience (or some sort of successor system) with someone who doesn’t even play the game as it currently stands? If you have a main that you actually play, maybe consider posting on him in the future to give some weight to your opinions.
Dear Forthelight,
The problem was all the bots! In AV, you would be surrounded by 20 bots all running up and down the road, farming honor.
I agree with you about honor, but I think that is the problem they are trying to avoid.
it makes getting into pvp or gearing for pvp take longer.
When we had resil or pvp power, most of us were running around with full bags with multiple sets of gear. This means if you want to get into pvp, you HAD to get the pvp gear first. For lots of people, even myself at times, that means if I put effort in one aspect of wow, be it M+ or raiding, I couldn’t just hop into PvP. Despite the fact I had already put in a lot of time getting one set, it was useless.
Not sure why you disagree with that though. There are barriers to entry in lots of other forms content, even pet battles in a way. Without the gear, you’re going to be performing at subpar level compared to your equal ilvl counterparts.
You could even say right now, ilvl is barrier to higher rating for some players. Getting good gear means having a higher rating, but that is ‘gated’ around having good gear in the first place. While ability counts for a lot in PvP it’s hard to deny the impact good gear has on the game now. Gear does’t make any player good by any means, but it makes good players great.
For PvP talents, I hate the idea of having abilities locked behind PvP. If I don’t have warmode on, a good chunk of my abilities aren’t even functional. For players who may not want to have wpvp, but enjoy PvP, the transition into PvP can be more awkward considering many abilities aren’t even a part of your normal rotation.
In concept, it sounds good, but all PvP talents did was take baseline abilities away from specs. Like taking away explosive traps from hunter. It was really good for PvE and now it’s locked behind PvP.
Ah, I thought you were making that comment relative to PvP. PvE gear in PvP in WoD was pretty minimal compared to other expansions.
I was very active during those seasons and while there was a decline from previous ones, it was no different relative to the population of the game.
PvP gear didn’t bring balance. Not sure why you have that idea. =/
When we had resil and PvP Power, PvE still had a very heavy impact on PvP.
This is 100% driven by stat priorities. If vers is your primary stat, PvP tends to be a better route. It has nothing to do with it being PvE of PvP. There are PvE players with PvP gear as well.
There would be WAY more PvP gear in PvE for some specs if gear from PvP was more accessible. That’s the issue here. Players have a lot of PvE gear because of ease of access, not because it’s so much better. It’s irrelevant.
Eh, maybe. I said something similar elsewhere. You could get almost a full set of conquest gear in a day or two in Ashran. While it was great for people with alts that enjoyed PvP, it was pretty unbalanced relative to the gearing process for PvE.
Sorta. I mean, it works realy well for some specs. It’s a pretty safe stat for most specs.
For sure, you’re not wrong.
I just get a bit tired of needing multiple sets of gear for everything I do. To that, I want the gear I earn in one form to be meaningful in another. Maybe it isn’t perfect, but starting from scratch isn’t either. =/
Dear Ishmael,
Good, you know what fallacies are and that most people have 10+ alts. We can only post on one.
The cancer/doctor analogy is a bit extreme. WoW is not as complicated as as biology nor is it a matter of life and death.
I agree that people should opine about WoW who actually play it a decent amount. But, at some point those standards can get too high and become just elitism. Yes?
In MoP, I finally bought a 12 button mouse and I slowly overcame my fear of arenas and began to learn the strats of BGs. I have 1550 achievements on 4 classes from MoP, which for me at the time was a big deal. I have never been into PvP since MoP, and I think a lot of other people feel the same.
I don’t read the forum posts and decide if an idea sounds good or bad, then check the character who posted and change my mind about the quality of ideas and opinions in the post. The exception would be when someone makes an outrageous claim. Then I might wonder who is saying something so crazy.
So Ishmael, try to answer two questions:
Do you think a PvP trinket set bonus, like from WoD would be a good thing to keep PvE trinkets out of PvP?
Do you think a PvP power enchant only acquired from instanced pvp that could be put on multiple pieces of gear be a good thing for pvp?
You can spam for the same gear levels in PvP.
The rating requirements are just too high.
Both mythic+ and PvP can yield no lockout 465 and weekly 475.
PvP trinkets need a great set bonus to help offset PvP ones.
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I miss resil 
What does this mean? If I want to talk on another of my characters all I have to do is click my portrait at the top right, click my name, then click change character. I only stay on Kaurmine because that’s who I’ve done the most posting as so if anyone wants to look at my history they can see I’m not a troll poster.
This is a complete lie. You could get almost a full set of honor gear in a day or two in Ashran. It took a couple of months playing hours a day to get a full set of conquest gear.
I know, I geared 17 100’s in Ashran during wod, and I capped 3 for season 3.
Are you making it up because you don’t know the truth, or because you think people are stupid enough that they’ll believe you?
Your entire post reads…
“People who get super gear doing PvE should be gifted with a large permanent advantage over PvP gearing. They should never have to put any effort into PvP gearing.”
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WoW keeps me subbed by pvp existing
I didn’t pvp in legion and didn’t play legion because pvp sucked so hard then
Pvp doesn’t need content because it creates its own content
It just needs better systems in place
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Simple solution, treat pvp as a separate game again. I should not have to PvE at all to enjoy pvp.
I am on my 12th 120 and to be honest, the need to farm cloak, corruptions and essences is quite irritating to just jump in and enjoy pvp.
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And what kind of system do you suggest? They way I see it there are two crowds. You have the people who take part in PvE as well as PvP on the side. For them being able to jump straight into PvP with the gear they earned through PvE effectively removes an entire entry barrier they’d otherwise have to devote valuable play time for. On the other hand you have the PvP only players who feel unjustly done and left behind by players who, because they CHOSE to complete major content, have an advantage. How do you appease both crowds, keeping in mind that raiding/M+ are not the only PvE content with significant character progression rewards.