So many of my arena friends don’t believe me when I say that stuff like random battlegrounds do matter. A lot people play this game and don’t care about pushing rating - they just wanna go kill the guy on the other team and collect shiny stuff.
But, this is an MMORPG - and one that’s supposed to be based around a faction war. And unrated PvP is both unrewarding, and freakishly discouraging right now.
Between gear gaps being the worst they’ve ever been in the modern state of the game - and I’d argue worse than BC/WoTLK - and faction imbalance, it’s just… there’s barely a game left for people who enjoy that.
I can still log in and spam battlegrounds across my alts, but my friends who refuse to touch rated? The ones where I had so many I had wait lists for unranked BGs in BFA S4? They’re gone. And I don’t think they’re coming back unless these issues and the lack of rewards incentive for them is addressed. (And I don’t think that can happen unless we revamp the entire system to a battle pass style thing, and that’s opening up a can of worms I don’t feel like dealing with because this community is a cesspit.)
It’s actually pathetic how /every/ aspect of PvP has been left to rot.
Every single one.
All this arguing and going back and fourth. All I wanna know is WHY, OH WHY!! Does nobody know the difference between THEN and THAN!?!? If y’all are old enough to pay a sub fee, then you’re old enough to learn to speak. JS, carry on.
I don’t usually enjoy world pvp much, but I have always been on a pvp realm or warmode on. Now, it’s just not fun. You have a 5-6 specs that are just insane in world pvp, then everything else. If you aren’t one of those top specs, you might as well play without warmode.
There was a time when I had the ability to play just about anything and felt like I could hold my own. That isn’t the case anymore.
While I still like most of the focus being on the rated experience, the unrated experience should still be inviting. That is, after all, what gets most of us into pvp in the first place. BGs are terrible now. Unless you do rated, raiding, or even M+, you won’t have the gear to do anything meaningful in unrated content.
The current design of conquest, or how you get conquest gear, is the worst it’s ever been.
Almost like we’re nearing the end of a tier, and people are geared by now or something.
This isn’t new, happens end of every tier in pvp. People late to the parry get crushed and complain they get rofl stomped in unrated pvp that people quite literally do to pass time and crush noobs.
No other first season of any expansion has had power gaps this big. Maybe pre-legion expansions in the final season when comparing someone who just hit max level and has no PvP gear compared to someone in full conquest, but even those people could get competitive honor gear quickly. It’s completely different now.
Well they clearly don’t do M+ or WQs or they would have fixed them by now. So I’m 100% positive the only things they do is raid and that’s literally it.
What point are you even trying to make because it’s not countering any point I’m making.
Gear alone isn’t the issue. To that, just because it’s late in the season, also shouldn’t be an issue. We have had catch up systems before and they have worked. Also, it’s not just a matter of getting gear. If it was, that would imply everything else is fine with PvP, which it isn’t.
The devs have been hands off and it shows. They made some very early nerfs and then have barely done anything after. There is such a massive ilvl gap right now that unless you started early, most players have 0 chance of getting gear through PvP. Even doing RBGs now is a pain if you want to pug and don’t know many people.
What’s with people like you? You want to defend this? You think the disparity in power relative to ilvl is good? Even the amount of time it takes to farm honor makes having alts a chore. You used to be able to play your 10 games or get your 10 wins and you would be good. Now, you it takes 100’s of games just get a basic set of gear.
It’s like we have back tracked on everything that was good about PvP in the past. This constant scorched earth mentality with PvP is just terrible design.
Why does GD always assume this is just about gear and gear alone?
Also, historically, it has been easier to push towards the end of a season. This is one of the few times it’s been made ridiculously harder to do so.
I believe so.
I’d look him up there and ask him directly though. He knows more about how to check stuff from the API than I do. I’m just the “grinds BGs all day after getting x rating for cosmetic” guy.
Ignoring casual PVPers is ignoring I would guess 80-85% of your pvpers. Most arent only pvping for some rating. Most just like to jump in BGs and have some fun with CTF or others… I am one of them.
I agree that the tank’s job isn’t pressure, but there’s not much difference between disrupting a critically timed heal or adding some extra burst into a kill window. I’m not saying maintain damage overall, but damage should be possible with some specs (even if less consistent or requires a sizable ramp for a 1-time use). Burst damage, in the PvP context, can be thought of as utility. At the same time, it should be offensive power or utility, and probably not both.
I think in terms of 3 axes for power; offense, defense, and utility. Utility does not include offensive or defensive buffs (those are offense/defense), but mainly CC, slows, interrupts, etc. I also place dispels into utility because they’re a wildcard that can end up being used offensively or defensively…
Any character within a role-based system either rests strongly in offense or defense. Damage dealers are in offense. Tanks are on the mitigation and “focus” side of defense, where healers are on the recovery side of defense. In PvP, the game seems to be healthiest when a character focuses on one aspect, but is able to choose between one of the other axes to perform. In my mind, that means a damage dealer can go “heavier” defense, and take a few hits, or heavier utility, and try to control their opponent or make themselves harder to pin down.
A tank then who sacrifices utility and the ability to disrupt enemies and control the field should be compensated with higher than normal (for a tank) damage. This adds spice to the game in letting maybe one tank build the beefy bud who you want squatting over your healers to buff and enable, or the juggernaut sitting out with your melee damage just being a giant sponge while dishing out a set of heavy handed blows. In PvP, allowing the choice in which “off-tree” you want to take creates a cool layer of variety and individuation.
For example, VDH having a strong The Hunt seemed like a really interesting design overall. The problem it underscored though is that there’s no reason to play Havoc though if you can arena pop as Vengeance. And that’s the bigger issue that I’ve been on about–class balance and design is all out of whack. They could have buffed some defensive options for Havoc or made some amazing PvP talents offset the differences (albeit slightly), instead of just flat nerfing VDH’s ability and leaving Havoc as-is…
I thought I liked LDON until the second run. Then I realized I was just playing a fraction of a game and ended up hating it. I think I seriously did two dungeons in the two years after it came out… It was more fun just making a new character and grinding through Paludal Caverns. Always loved seeing the trains fly through there! That and watching bards solo giants on Oasis…
That’s sort of the bane of World of Warcraft. Everything is a solo story too. And then when they add group content, like in The Maw, they don’t let you just grind and play the content–it’s all timegated. I wish the world was a little more “alive”.
Agree–either go all the way and balance the game, or stop blocking players who pay the time from getting to the finish line. It’s frustrating to see rating matter, but then the games be composed of 90% meta comps.
I’ve said before and it’s worth saying again, rating should be spec-based and be a reflection of how you compare against other people who have played that spec. There is a difference between getting 2400 on an an arcane mage and a fire mage, or between a mistweaver monk and a holy paladin… but the in-game reward treats it the same.
This thread used it right as far as I can tell.
Then is temporal or causal.
Than is relative or a comparator.
It’s not rocket surgery.
The problem is PvP gear is locked behind rating – making it necessarily competitive if you want to do anything more than die in 2 seconds every time a Duelist+ sneezes your way. It’s not the healthiest for the game and is at the heart of the comments against it.
Imagine after patch zero someone is like “Hey, it’s just a gear difference buddy!” when there have been literally zero power creep implementations since launch. That’s how big the gap is – it sucked in BFA, it sucks now. You are absolutely right that it isn’t just the spread and is on class balance too. Though, @Bluster calling out the big gear spread made me smile. No other expansion was this crazy 138 to 226… Gear spread absolutely is an issue, and exclusivity on the gear is a hook into that issue (again, you do the grind, you should be on a level playing field–but that grind today is solely in ranked and sadly unranked offers no hope to ever be competitive).
The disparity in power is caused by months of people having time already to gear. There is no arbitrary gatekeeper here, just time.
Sounds like you guys are just advocating for easy double u’s for alt gearing and the occasional new person.
Unfortunately you gear alts and mains tge same way everyone else that’s crushing you in the content you want to do already has. This is a case of “not everything is handed to you on a silver platter”
You know there is alternate ways to gear? There isn’t just one path. If you only do one content type then good luck to you on gearing even marginally fast. But that’s on you and has nothing to do with you getting smoked out, you choose to only pvp you Bite the bullet
You know we are talking PVP here right? You PVP for PVP gear. I dont know what you are trying to say. This is a balance issue thread and a bad gearing system.
