It’s generally why this is a fallback for me. I’d love to believe things are possible. But if they are, were a very long ways off.
Well you definitely came in here with an arrogance and condescending attitude when you spewed that hot mess out disagree is one thing that that was an outright attack.
If you read what I wrote from the beginning I was mostly pointing to a theory on possible types of civilizations that may exist.
And that scale is pretty solid as it has been used for decades and is regularly reexamined, and while pointing to that I was also saying the reason why humans/earth lifeforms are “baseline” is because that the only metric we have and the only thing we know we can search for that might have a possibility of being out there.
I.e the goldilocks zone for life which is what we have been searching for when it comes to earth like planets that could have life.
Since we lack the ability to visit them up close we dont have many options to find out.
Anyways the scale is overall pretty straight forward we are at .75 measured by the amount of energy we gather and use from the environment. The beginning of the scale is our use of our own bodies hunting/gathering waging war for territory ect. Thats until we begin to make fire and farm/raise livestock and tap into kinetic energy like windmills and water wheels where we made the jump to mining minerals and so forth.
At .75 that is the current peak of the human race we made it to the moon and back. So to make it to a solid 1.0 we need to be able to colonize another world in our system no return trip just plop some people down hope for the best. At 2.0 we have the ability to travel from earth to colony 1 and have begun to colonize other planets in the solar system.
Then to get to a 3 we have to leave our system and expand into our galaxy such as going to another solar system in our galaxy dropping off a colony wish them luck. and tier 3.5 is the point where you cross to colonizing other systems and galaxies with return trip ability.
Going beyond that you start to get into galactic empires where a civ has gained enough of a ability like capturing the energy of a star or light speed travel etc to build an empire across galaxies.
The seemingly small leap from a 3.5 to a 4+ is extremely huge tech wise a 3.5 can barely harvest gas giants where as a 4 is harvesting power from stars. 5 and 6 is the estimated peak possible high point any civilization can reasonably achieve before destruction/collapse with out breaking laws of physics.
Now a 7+ you get into god civilizations which again all of this is just a collective theory being capable of operating outside the laws of physics. Like traveling faster than light or building synthetic stars/planets systems.
Which again chances are don’t exist because in the billions of years that have passed by its more likely a civilization was wiped out long before earth was created.
Now on to your spew everything from plants to animals not only feed but can do it to extreme excess, the only thing that prevents something from gaining absolute domination is the next thing up the food chain.
Plenty of animals kill just to kill and will defend that kill even though they dont need to feed. So saying greed is purely human is way off greed has been seen in many animals from ants to whales.
Even plants if left with out competition will spread endlessly destroying entire eco systems ever heard of invasive species yea thats greed across the board the ability to take what’s available just because it can even plants kill other plants to occupy habitable space.
I’m not sure how you imagine folding two points of space into a wormhole without at least being able to achieve fusion reactors? How exactly do you propose to do that?
Aha. And what specific frequencies and elements are those and how are they arranged?
You sound far too vague to show you have any idea of what you’re talking about.
Solar system isn’t galaxy…
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After almost 100 years exploring space, nothing has come of it. Not only is there no life out in space, it’s a complete waste of time and money altogether. The only people profiting from Space Exploration are the Contractors and Book Authors and Film Makers.
You made an unfounded claim and paraded it as fact and I directly stated it was rampant speculation. That’s not an attack, even if you didn’t like it.
Which is still, itself, speculation. It’s not a theory that we have any basis beyond ourselves to actually judge without. Speculation is fun, and it can lead to meaningful thoughts, but without another species to compare it to the speculative theory is equally as valid as any other speculative theory.
Which is to say that we know 0 about potential aliens and there is no legitimate reason to believe that we have any insight into them at all. We can guess based on ourselves, like I said, but a sample pool of one does not allow you to do anything but speculate, like I said.
Right but that tells us nothing of their psychology or culture, which is what I was driving at. Suggesting that they’d be greedy, and then positing that life itself is greedy by nature (false), just because humans lean towards it is, ultimately, pure speculation. Nothing about the physics of where they live would tell us anything about how they behave.
Furthermore my argument was about the fact that how they behave would dictate whether they actually did any of the things we might think they might. If they’re not colonists, if they’re not interested in deep space, then we have no reason to believe they’d colonize the whole galaxy (a task I consider dubiously believable to begin with, at least while retaining a “singular species and culture”).
The point isn’t whether I believe the scale could be an appropriate measure or not. The question is whether or not every species would inherently follow that scale.
I also point out that your statement was:
Besides the greed aspect this was the only other thing I was debating you on.
If humans colonized Alpha Centauri somehow we could be defined as interstellar. We’d be capable of moving between stars, colonizing other worlds, etc. That’s perfectly fine, but that’s a far cry from “extracting energy from galaxys.” Perhaps you meant an intergalactic species, but you specifically said interstellar, which is simply “between stars.”
The energetic and technological requirements to get to Alpha Centauri are minimal compared to the requirements to “extract energy from galaxys”. That’s such an astoundingly huge leap that I can’t see the reasoning in it at all. A species that moves about a dozen stars is nowhere near capable of harvesting a galaxy, they might not even be able to harvest stars yet.
First, separate my statements. Greed is absolutely a core premise of humanity and we can see that on every level. Then I point out that it’s not a basic tenet of life and survival. The fact that some species engage in surplus killing is not the same as saying that all life is greedy. The fact that many species do not engage in surplus killing is a killing blow to the argument.
I think you’re conflating two things. There’s competition and then there’s greed. Plants aren’t “greedy” they just grow where they can. Animals aren’t usually greedy except they just make do with what they can get; if another animal doesn’t get it that’s not even part of the thought process. That’s competition; greed would be taking it to have it so others can’t.
With plants there’s no intent, and with plenty of species there’s no surplus killing. “Greed” is not the same as “competition.”
Wherever there’s life, it seems to get consumed by black holes. Eventually maybe in a few aeons it will happen to us.
The last time I ran the Drake equation with numbers that made sense to me, I got a number that was bigger than 1 but less than 2.
I’d probably revise that to between 10 and 20 now. Still, although we’re probably not alone, our nearest neighbor is far enough away that we may as well be.
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No. Looking at Humanity I personally subscribe to the filter theory.
That there’s a great filter in the universe that prevents space traveling society from being possible. Either we’re behind that filter, meaning we haven’t face our extinction problem.
Or we’re the only ones to have gotten past the filter, meaning we have surpassed a stage in life no one else in the universe as. Both are incredibly scary concepts.
I think Humanity is behind the filter. And the extinction event is our own war and bloodlust. I don’t think life makes it off their planets before destroying it and each other.
I dont think you truly understand how big the universe is.
I doubt we’ll ever find intelligent life on Earth.
Well since are sun is hurling through space right now why earth is dragged along do to gravity- Yes there is - US
Sorry it’s the way you worded it - space station with ppl on it would also be a good answer
If humanity hasnt hit the filter yet, that’d mean its extremely likely theres tons of other intelligent civilizations out there at our level that also havent hit it. Only way theres no other intelligent life is if we’re past the filter.
Personally id love to see Humanity reach the ol Star Trek Federation utopia dream of a space society.
But I feel like that’s a pipe dream. The Terran Empire from the AU star trek seems like a more likely future of Humanity as a space faring species. Killing the first aliens we contact, conquering the galaxy.
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A new method for estimating the likelihood of life arising beyond Earth gives reason for hope. It has to do with adjustments to the Drake Equation. According to the parameters used, there should be at least 36 advanced civilisations capable of broadcasting communication signals in the Milky Way galaxy, although the number could be even higher.
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Life is rare considering the vastness of our universe ,black hole or singulars are another unique phenomena ,though we are finding they are not as rare as we once believed it may happen one of these smaller one floating freely can indeed visit us.
http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/free-floating-planet-mass-objects-common-galaxies-07907.html
well yes, there is life out in space. microorganism and other bacteria in our own galaxy. the thing is we dont have intelligent life forms yet. nothing comparable at least.
i like many holds the opinion that if we are to be the only intelligent life across galaxies and cosmos… would be lonely
Also worth noting detectable radio broadcasts would only occur for a very short period in the civilization of any alien species. We’ve had radio for only like 100 years and we’re already going with ways to transmit signals that dont leak and less easily detected signals.
It would be a stroke of extreme luck if we existed at the same time another civilization was both close enough for us to detect their radio waves and primitive enough that they were detectable to begin with.
Lol. I am not a scientist nor do I claim to be. And you missed the part where I suggested you look into Bob Lazar. He is in fact a scientist with a very interesting story.
I am not saying its true. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. I am also not saying folding space actually works. The only point I am trying to make is that the way humans think and develop their technology is not the only way to think and develop technology. Our limits are not automatically somebody else’s limits.
That’s all I mean. 