Yrel’s group is completely wrong, but they are supposed to have understandable points for part of why they’re doing what they’re doing. But, what they are doing is monstrous. The point is we don’t know anything about the situation of the AU Mag’har, or what punishments AU Grom did or did not experience during those 30 years. We know almost nothing about the events of that planet within those 3 decades of skipped time. And YOU are the one freaking out because Grom was leading the AU Mag’har in Gorgrond again … while they were on the cusp of being “saved” by Yrel. While AU Draka was also leading the other bastion of holdouts in Nagrand.
Stop freaking out about information we don’t have. And stop having kneejerk reactions to ANYTHING infringing on your image of a wholly benevolent Light (which is why Yrel has hardly been the only Light worshipper on your purity crusade). We don’t even know what or who this Light Mother is for goodness sake. Only that she’s playing off of Yrel’s prophetic visions. Which again, is something Yrel was left open to exploitation through thanks to AU Velen just dumping that dangerous without training superpower on her. And guess what? Even if Grom faced no punishments for what he did during those last 30 years (which I highly doubt, given that he wronged the Orcish people opposed to him just as much as he did the Draenei) … he’s definitely getting punished 30 years later.
Because a fade-to-black never means death.
EDIT: And as a note. If you want my prediction without details madness. I would wager that AU Durotan was the Warchief of the AU Mag’har up until the point he was killed by the Lightbound. And while AU Grom probably was involved in the lives of the AU Mag’har during that period (as he clearly fought alongside Yrel, Durotan and Draka against the Legion threat) … he only reprised the role of Warchief AFTER Durotan’s death. Decades later, and during the crisis situation that rose up due to the Lightbound. Because few Orcish chieftains left by the end of WoD have his level of experience in Warfare. And the AU Mag’har were certainly at war by then.
There is when plot demands one. But Blizzard prefers to keep their plots relatively simple and accessible.
They can be involved AND detached. The combination simply means that they really don’t care for the fates of individuals or even groups of a certain size, only the preservation of the Preferred Timeline. Chromie for instance once dwelled in a tavern room that touched multiple realities at once. She didn’t give a hang about any of them though, but she made use of them to acheive her purposes in this one.
30 years is a long time. With Y’rel mowing down the Mag’har leadership, he may have well been called back from exile because of the crisis posed by the Lightbound. He WAS after all good at making war.
It also should be noted (and this is kicking a beehive), given the motives AU Grom was given for attacking the AU Draenei … there is nothing concrete it was an attempted genocide. Because the “motive” as presented to him would have pressured him in keeping them weakened and suppressed (thus preventing them from interfering in the invasion of Azeroth, which Garrosh convinced him they would). Which is probably why the Draenei weren’t just eradicated before the Iron Horde even opened the Dark Portal.
This is a annoying technicality, but the guy had TONS of crimes on his shoulders already. So much red in his ledger that he would have to atone for. There really isn’t a need to conflate the Iron Horde’s crimes with the MU Fel Horde’s. They both have lots of blood on their hands, they aren’t entirely the same though.
The Iron Horde were absolutely committing genocide against the Draenei. What kind of idiot actually excuses their actions as anything but? I’ll tell you the exact kind. The kind of person who would make any excuse possible for the Iron Horde’s actions, and regurgitate anything resembling defense that someone else has already parroted to them for their precious attempt at validating, another, atrocity.
Because given the motives that AU Grom was canonically given, and the fact that the Draenei still exist (and are facing about the same amount of military threat as the Orc rebels) … no, there isn’t anything in WoD that really shows the Iron Horde was attempting a genocide campaign against the Draenei. That group has PLENTY of red in its ledger to make up for, but unless you’re conflating them with their MU counterparts … that is one thing the technically do not have in common with them. They attacked them to keep them suppressed and out of the way of the invasion of Azeroth (which was their target), because they were convinced if they did not … the Draenei would get in the way. But if they were really out to eradicate the Blue Goats, there is no reason why they wouldn’t have wiped them out before they opened the Dark Portal. They had the forces to do it.
And before you point out the AU Shadowmoon. While they may have been pressured into investing into the “a new weapon” because of Grom (one of his many crimes), Rulkan is pretty clear that by the time we start dealing with them they’ve already been pretty much consumed by the Void. They’re totally deranged in their rituals. Which is why you can find patches of pale orcs all over the Shadowmoon compound and around it.
Droite, why is it, in reality. Unsuccessful genocides are still considered genocides? Because, when you intentionally target a people for enslavement, and destruction. With examples. That makes it so.
But since you can’t actually prove the intent of the Iron Horde to do this, you’ve disproven your own point. Because even the canon reason why AU Grom was goaded into attacking them does not support the idea he intended to eradicate them. Hell, after the initial intro scenario, the Iron Horde isn’t even once seen with slaves. And there were just as many Orc slaves as there were Draenei ones in Tanaan. And I checked the last time that stupid issue was brought up. The ONLY slaves we see after the initial intro are with the Arrakoa and Ogres. Even the Blackrock territories in Gorgrond are using Blackrock forces for gruntwork.
Hell, the conflict in Talador was narratively centered around the Iron Horde trying to secure Shattrath Harbor and the surrounding territories … because it was one of the most pivotal control points on the entire continent. And that literally is the reason given why the Iron Horde is sieging that area in game.
I can very easily point out how almost the entirety of the cities being sieged in WoD are held by a particular race of goat people. The Iron Horde has still enslaved the Draenei, and are working them to death in the intro, sorry. The people who make up the Iron Horde, also have expression of distaste for a specific race.
Your point of how Grom’s intention was to eradicate the Draenei, is also particularly undermining your point where they’re supposed to not be targeted intentionally here.
They’re doing that with Orcs too, and Draenei slaves only exist with that intro scenario.
And lets take a look at those Draenei cities. In Talador, the whole western part of the map is under siege by Arrakoa. The south is getting hit up by Demons and Ogres. Its only the western-north western area around Shattrath harbor was being slammed by the Iron Horde (and again, the military reason they were doing that was given IN GAME, during the campaign). How about Shadowmoon? Well, we have LOTS of demons, and the completely void consumed Shadowmoon clan (who are just deranged at that point). The ONLY true Iron Horde forces in the region are strangely … on the island where Rexxar is hanging out in the south. As for AU Nagrand, its just Talaar. It is actually shocking how lacking in presence the Iron Horde is in WoD.
So … try harder? You genuinely cannot show intent to eradicate the Draenei as a people. And outside of exclusively the intro scenario, they aren’t even slaves. With the only direct conflicts with them being military targets (same with the Orcish resistance). Hell, even the SM (by the time we arrive) are consumed by the Void (with AU Ner’zhul saying as much when you face him). And while yes, that IS Groms fault through his threats and demands for a new weapon … they weren’t really operating as Iron Horde at that point. The Iron Horde has a massive amount of sins and red in their ledger. But like it or not, you cannot prove attempted Genocide of the Draenei was one of them. That is not something they technically share with their MU counterparts.
Their are iron stars, and an entire invasion of Karabor by the Iron Horde, why are you trying to reduce their impact in this zone in particular? You repeatedly keep pretending that characters aren’t built off the fact the Iron Horde were enslaving the Draenei. Weird.
When Grom’s decision to eradicate a race is acted upon. Weather you like it or not, that makes it genocide. When the same people who tried to genocide those people hang on to the hatred as well, it’s damning evidence.
Weren’t those draenei slaves being processed as portal fuel?
It’s been an age since I did the WoD intro but considering how the draenei were confirmed to undergo a genocide attempt in the main timeline already, I feel like that’s the same sort of horror that the intro was meant to evoke.
They were using Gul’dan and his buddies to power the Dark Portal. Which is why releasing them shuts it off. Truly, I am not kidding Vuldezi here. I would not be saying this if it weren’t so weird. But despite all of the crimes and sins that can be placed upon the Iron Horde and Grom, attempted Genocide of the Draenei is not one you can actually attach to them. There is no evidence either way, and given the canon motive he had to attack them in the first place … that is not a sufficient reason for him committing to such an endeavor. Nor would explain why there are still Draenei around in such numbers by the time we get there if it were.
Even I was shocked by it. It may have been something they considered before so much of that expac was cut, but its just not there. And even the slavery thing (of both Draenei and Orcs) ceases to be a thing for the Iron Horde themselves after the intro. I spent way too much time there (not really that long ago really) maxing out every rep, and getting every Exploration and Quest achievement I could. To the point where if I EVER get that Solar Spirehawk, I’m never setting foot there again. Even I found it odd how everywhere the Iron Horde is, but how kind of off doing their own thing they were all expac. Disjointed as hell.
Well, the Draenei were enslaved, and were being used…like slaves. They also had every single one of their settlements targeted by the Iron Horde at some point or another during the questing. This is the actions of people carrying out a genocide. Quoting a desire from its founder to eradicate them is also damning. His influencer, who literally harkens back to a ‘triumph’ of past genocides at various points, to this very people…
So were Orcs in the same amount of numbers you disingenuous troll.
That is not a sign of attempted Genocide, as it simply translates into them using prisoners of War as slaves (and even THAT stops after the intro). Not that there was some sort of systematic intent to eradicate either of those groups. And NO, NEVER does AU Grom ever have the motive or intent presented he wants their eradication or total enslavement. He just wants to keep them weakened and out of the way.
I doublechecked and I think they’re being tossed into flaming pits to fuel the ritual. The video I saw happened to not focus on it but I could hear a scream and the camera pans up just in time to see a big brazier thing flare up as something lands in it.
And then there’s this quest that confirms that slain prisoners are being used to power the dark portal:
It does not however indicate JUST Draenei souls. So you’re right, they are sacrificing their prisoners to keep the portal running (which is perhaps why the stop using slaves after its destroyed), but there were just as many Orcish slaves there as Draenei. It was pretty much anyone who would be considered a prisoner of War (as all of them were in opposition to the Iron Horde). So, all this does is reinforce what I said. AU Grom and the Iron Horde have an ENORMOUS amount of sins and red in their ledger … but unlike their MU counterparts you cannot actually attach an attempted genocide to them. As weird as that sounds. And I get its weird.
So were Orcs in the same amount of numbers you disingenuous troll.
Wow, how cute you forgot about this questline Sarm has referenced. Here’s one I checked just, yknow. Very easily, and quickly. Called Bled Dry. A questline given to you from a dying Draenei, in the hands of his lady. Referencing the way the Iron horde has been targeting them for their blood to be used in rituals, hmmm. How funny this has been overlooked. You spend the quest freeing Draenei prisoners from cages. Not Orcs.
Why would I have to try again? This is proof as well as the attacks in every single village/home the Draenei have on Draenor as under attack by the Iron Horde. Nice editing you’re going through. They wasn’t ever a plan to stop killing the Draenei, and here they are being used beyond slavery.