The system itself worked fine up until the whole “LFR gear” crap started to appear, there shouldn’t be a difference between LFR and normal raid difficulty gear, I personally feel that the idea of mythics while great on paper didn’t work out too well in practice as it added a new level of potential stat gain. That’s where I feel the system is being berated.
There was always LFR gear… And if they made it the same is normal raid gear, normal raiding would cease to exist. Which is one of my points.
LFR/LFD heavily damaged the community and effectively erased content by allowing players to overgear most of the game simply by logging in and clicking the proper queue. You could fix one of those problems by making LFR/LFD gear blue, but the other still remains.
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You keep saying that only hardcore players who have nothing else to do in their life didn’t like the change. There are plenty of people who enjoyed the social aspect, of feeling like an actual world and RPG, who despised the system. They prefer quality over quantity - and I do as well.
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Yes and it still continues to plague every god damn mmorpg to this day.
You do lose healers in LFs, believe it or not, sometimes it breaks up the group. I guess it all depends on what difficulty you’re comfortable with. Since blizzard is all about efficiency in this process, I really just want to get my gear and go.
To be fair, I don’t have any further incentive to LF other than the gear upgrades, usually once I’m in full LFR that’s where I park a character (although you can’t even do that because next tier is always dropping). Just doing LFRs and LFDs at cap, well right now I’m having more fun leveling (mostly through LFs ironically, because why would you pass up half a level and a guaranteed chance at a piece of gear that no world quest will give you) so take that how you will.
I’ll be happy to play Classic without it but it’s kind of necessary to the retail experience at this point, they could never take it away or it would be the proverbial crapshow. Doing 120 without looms and LF’s doesn’t sound fun, it’s too drawn out that way. Blizzard has forced this change on the game whether we like it or not, it’s not going anywhere, we’ll see just how easy it is to group in Classic I guess.
One of the main sticking points in my guild (no one’s coming to Classic with me) is they all think they won’t see content with a lower playerbase that they didn’t see when it was live. It’s a valid concern, I hope they’re wrong. I’d hate to fall behind the initial rush and find myself paying capped players to “run” me again because it was always the most expedient thing to do.
If your guildies go by the same philosophy as you and use LFR as your bar to gear and stop there…I wouldn’t see them raiding much further than MC in classic. So, their conclusion is right; not because there won’t be enough players to meet those goals, but because of their will.
Of course, it sounds like you enjoy leveling, and leveling is abundant in classic. Of course, it won’t be as easy as sitting in the city waiting on queues.
I have guildies who do mythics and regular raids, but that’s not the main focus of the guild. I don’t think I’m geared or experienced enough to go looking for that at this time. I look forward to leveling at least one character “the old fashioned way” in Classic without scaling and all this other drek, I just hope I can find some like-minded folks to hang with while I do so.
And you’re so right, where there’s a will to see content there’s a way. I was kind of thrown off by that argument because I’m pretty sure a capped guild could see anything they wanted to see.
If making things easier to group doomed WoW what about this?
WoW at its start, made it so you didnt have to group to level. The first MMORPG to do so. Thats what started the path towards no community. The original design of the game. Adding LFG was only going further down that road but it was a path started when the game was being built. You can say well this little piece caused the limb to break and ignore the fact half of the limb had already been cut.
I for one came to WoW at launch BECAUSE I did NOT need a group to level. I liked LFD because it let me run dungeons more than 1 or 2 times. I had done the guild route. I had done the making friends in game. Neither worked out for me. Before WoW or after WoW.
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You didn’t have to group to level in the MMOs I started with prior to WoW’s release, but it certainly helped… just like in WoW. So your entire point is not true.
Thanks for proving my point 
This is totally true. I would’ve been more heavily involved in EQ if I wasn’t a college student at the time only able to play in the middle of the night. No groups in the middle of the night. Then I met a friendly guild but they wanted me to fill out an application and I was like “I don’t have time for that I’ve already shown you guys you can trust me” but I ended up putting the game down instead of throwing in with them, it just seemed like such a commitment.
It did have a lot more community than this game ever has, you had to be friendly to everyone you met because you pretty much needed everyone you met, like even a buff was worth tipping for.
There were still trolls and, if anything, stalking was more common (happened to me twice in three months). Great game though for its time, loved my Iksar necromancer (though I always wanted his skeleton pet to be an Iksar skeleton, they had the model!). ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
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No? Your point is that before WoW, you had to group to level. That just wasn’t true - and grouping in WoW made everything easier, too. Sure, some things took longer, but you killed faster, were safer, could pull more, and had a social experience. Your point isn’t valid because your claim is false. Period. In Ragnarok Online, a game that came out in 2002, grouping helped but wasn’t mandatory - you could even solo to the highest level (as leveling was the only real content to do besides hunting things at max level for money/better gear), it just was easier to group. In NexusTK, a game that came out in 1996, the exact same thing happened. It was easier to group, but was not mandatory.
I wasn’t nitpicking nor was I ignoring your argument, I disagreed with it and explained why. Just because you didn’t back up what you said doesn’t mean I’m arguing a fallacy.
No?
Not having to group to level, and being able to be randomly stuck in a group with four strangers from different servers, are related only if you boil them both for hours until you get a thin gruel that looks like “making the game easier, no other details worth mentioning.” You just posted the equivalent of, “Ah, you don’t like cockroaches, but don’t you realize that also obligates you to hate apples? Checkmate!”
And I realize your first sentence kind of calls out that you’re doing the thin gruel thing, but that means the answer to your post is:
You: “If making things easier to group doomed WoW–”
Everyone who has talked about the negative effects of LFD: “No, stop. Actually read what we said this time, and start over.”
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Well, your point was wrong. Even in Meridian 59 and UO you didn’t have to group with anybody to reach max level, and could enjoy most content just the same.
Just in addition to those already mentioned by Espure.
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That would’ve put people on pvp realms at a huge disadvantage, as some dungeons and raids actually require a flying mount to get to. The tempest keep instances for example. Ulduar needs a flying mount to enter, as the stone is below the portal. Throne of the Four Winds, Bastion of Twilight and Blackwing Decent are raids from Cata that need flying to reach.
Not to mention that some questing areas needs a flying mount to reach. Certain daily hubs in TBC and wrath for example.
These days on “retail” WoW, you can just turn off warmode, but that is a huge inconvenience.
Lack of reading comprehension for the loss.
Ever wonder why I put the quote in from the other thread? You know the ones who are so miserable all they have is to try to point out any possible minuscule error? Even as far as a missing .?
You proved my point as well. And you were wrong in saying I was wrong because you referenced the wrong quote. So both your and Espure points are invalid because you cannot respond to the correct quote.
Thats how it works here on these forums, correct?
If you’re wrong, yes.
Which is demonstrably wrong. better for you? Or do you just wanna pretend you’re not wrong anyways? You presented something as fact, and when we presented games that proves the opposite, then yes, you are wrong, no matter how “smart” you try to be about it. Just admit you were wrong. Much easier.
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So you still cant admit both of you mis-quoted and took out of context what I said.
Next. Meridian ill give you somewhat in the same vein as WoW. The others not so much. I dont see UO Ragnarok as games like WoW.
Still squirming I see. There’s nothing wrong in admitting you were wrong, and didn’t know about those games. We all make those mistakes from time to time. Difference being, I don’t mind swallowing my pride, if proved wrong.
And if you don’t see UO as a MMORPG, I don’t know what to tell you. I have no personal experience with Ragnarok, so won’t comment on that.
Still being selfrightous, huh? I knew about those games didnt play them. You can call UO an MMORPG. people do. They also call Maple Story and MMORPG as well. I dont think either one is similar to WoW. Its why I didnt include them
If You wanna talk EQ, EQ2, SWG, DAoC or ones in that vein yeah, they were similar. I loved CoH but dont consider it in the same vein as well. Heck even SWG was not really that close either