I do, and I love M+ system, I’m just saying it’s way easier than ever has been before
The only thing you have to do is not dying which is harder for a few specs but still eh
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Keys just aren’t as mandatory this season for mythic raiding. You can raid log now so I know personally myself I stopped doing mplus.
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Dragonflight M+ is not easier than Legion or BFA. Even BFA season 1, just had to unlock all azerite pieces and getting that +10 weekly was super easy. BFA S2, S3, and S4 were all complete jokes.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
Shadowlands S2, S3 and S4 was also complete joke.
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Plucking my quote out of context to repeat the grand declaration isn’t exactly a good faith argument. The clear point of my post was that the game may be heading in a direction requiring people to decide whether they want to continue playing.
I’ll agree the world content has been pretty copy->paste->reskin; no one can deny that. If they continue this pattern though, then people who want different will have to make the decision I mentioned and maybe Blizzard will change their approach to it.
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Some of the data suggests they already have.
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This could also be contributing to the drop in keys run. For those folks who just want to get their KSM/KSH, hitting that point seemed incredibly easy to me this season. At that point the only people who keep running are the ones who just really dig the challenge, and probably have their set groups - which leads to less pugging, people frustrated they can’t get into groups, and stop running them altogether.
I do see issues with the M+ system, but I don’t have good answers for fixing them. That said, I don’t think the population decline and decline in the number of keys run can be pinned on a singular point of contention. I imagine lots of factors are contributing. I hope they make some good changes that widen the meta - it sucks seeing all the same specs being used in top keys. And I totally agree with the point made upthread about needing more engaging solo content.
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I made this NA acc like 1 month ago and I already reached 2.6k by only playing 2/3 M+ a day and playing feral till past week (swapped to boomie)
There’s no way it’s harder now
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I got KSH the second week this season so I can definitely agree here. We might see this pace slow next season when they will undoubtedly taper the power of the new upgrade system, but the season itself will need a better approach to retain interest.
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It is. I played all seasons. It is much harder now for the AVERAGE player. Which you and I clearly are not.
They literally had to ADD mechanics to Legion dungeons to make them harder to match DF dungeons? You think this was because M+ was harder in Legion?
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I agree with everything what you said but I’ve never thought about it
Just like some ppl quit raiding after HC/M clear or PvP after 1.8k some other quit M+after KSM/KSH
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Well idk brother, I feel I’m pretty average now
Like I can’t play more than 2hrs a day and when I do it it’s after working, my skill dropped a lot
Back then I used to boost M+ and I really feel they were harder back then, even if they added some mechanics they also added more minutes to time it and reduced damage
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I was chatting with a friend I run keys with a week or two ago who was asking what rewards there are for KSH - this was after we got KSM and the mount. He used to pvp/arena and looked forward to the tiers of rewards there. Some people like that carrot to chase, and once they’ve got it, they’re done.
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Answer my question. Why did they have to ADD mechanics to Legion dungeons in S1 if M+ Legion was harder than now?
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I’ve definitely found less focused enthusiasm for M+ this season. But our team is also trying to puzzle out the fights in Dawn of the Infinite mega dungeon in preparation for the next season, so… I’d say that has halved our regular ‘key’ runs weekly.
Because some mechanics that could bonk you oneshot to death back then got nerfed so they had to balance it a bit
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This is an honest question here. How do you design encounters and classes around competitive 5 man dungeon content without having classes and encounters kind of get homogenized?
Dungeon content in the past didn’t have to be designed with a level of difficulty like a +20 key, so class choice didn’t really matter all that much. Even arena Pvp suffers from this too.
Blizzard is trying to turn their MMORPG into a fast pace small group online game like League of Legends, but the core game design doesn’t lend itself to this kind of gameplay design.
Most of WoW’s competitive content in the past was designed to have a lot of players in group with you, not 3 or 5 players. Random BGs and raids can bring a lot of classes and different specs. Arena and M+ is limited on space, so a lot of specs are going to lose out, unless they’re given all the same tools basically.
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I’m no superstar player either and think it’s easier. For a more objective glance, go check out mythicstats(dot)com. It gives a cool at-a-glance view of the top 2000 runs for each season back through BFA. It’s pretty easy to see the average key levels being timed were far lower in BFA/SL than they are in DF. We’re already hitting the highest key levels in s2 DF that they eventually hit in s4 of SL and have surpassed the average of all of BFA.
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But the highest M+ required for the best gear was a +10 at Legion / BFA launch…
And if you wanna talk about pushing keys then M+ INFINITELY scales, so that argument is pointless.
Go back and read, I was comparing DF with Legion and BFA. So why do I care about SL difficulty?
Anyways we are derailing the thread. Agree to disagree.
DF M+ is clearly not doing well, and this is obvious to anyone who can subtract numbers.
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Then compare it to SL when it was 15 and the vault was introduced.
Sure thing.
Totally agree.
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I have no idea. I won’t pretend to be a game designer. I’ve gone back on raiderio and looked at past seasons, and yes, there’s always been a meta on the top chunk of keys, but in past seasons there was still some variety up there. It really sucks how homogenized it is now. Not because I, personally, am ever going to get up there, but because I know that trickles down to lower key levels. It’s pretty basic stuff - if a spec works well in a 30, it probably works well in a 15. Folks see that and think that’s what they need to be running, when that’s just not the case.
They need to design the dungeons differently, imo. Some of the top specs were brought specifically for a niche skill. But this goes back to what I said above - most folks won’t even actually need those specs/niche skills because they don’t need to run routes or strats intended for +25-30s. MDI stuff and top key run strats trickle down, unfortunately.
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