Developers are not working in poverty. They live in California.
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I think that dude maybe just came off of a session of listening to political podcast or something.
Nothing that he’s saying is on-topic or replying to any of the other comments directly.
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It takes a lot more than the top big names to develop a game. Blizzard is well known for NOT paying well, except for the very highest levels. Irvine, CA is one of the highest cost of living areas in the entire US. To survive, most staff live packed into shared rentals, or commute hours per day just to afford rent.
The “but I worked for Blizzard so the low pay and suffering were worth it” has worn off.
I am sorry you have not been paying attention to the labor discussions around the gaming industry in the past 5 years or so.
Ok, this is just the whole “but CA” talking point, not actual knowledge of the cost of living, quality of life, etc. Someone does not need to live in a mud hut to realize they can go somewhere else and even for a lower salary, have their own living space, less/no commute, lower bills, more savings, etc.
Bro what?
I am in the software industry. I work in the same situation where I have been underpaid relative to my experience and skill.
I left those companies and worked for companies that will pay me more. This is just the way the things go.
The original tweet was not about normal turnover. It was about how Blizzard has a poisonous management structure that does not allow talented developers to criticize the game direction.
You’ve decided to inject your own personal gripe about labor conditions into an otherwise productive thread about the health of the game.
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No, it has NOTHING to do with game direction. It is about Corporate and the return to office policy after many were hired remote, or have been remote now for 3 years. They don’t want to live in the Irvine area and commute every day. It costs too much relative to pay and is a grueling grind.
If it was normal turnover it would not be impacting projects like the person said. That is planned for.
Good grief. You want this to be about some sort of crazy social agenda, or spoiled worker thing.
the internet was a mistake
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But it ties into all the statements about being ‘underpaid’. California has the highest property values, cost of living, and ridiculous litigation in the country.
Only in California can someone with a triple digit salary say they’re being underpaid.
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If you had to make a list of all of the labor and employment crisis in the country, and you wanted to sort that list by the most important to the least important…
Where would you put upper middle class software developers working at Blizzard in Irvine, California?
Have you been to Irvine? I’ve been many times. It is absolutely lovely. It is one of the nicest cities in the entire world and one of the safest communities in America by a mile.
Pick a different priority.
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The internet was fine before it was destroyed by normies and their social media.
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There are many high cost of living areas in the US, so that is not true at all. People are sick and tired of having to live in cities or commute hours a day to go sit in a cubicle on a computer doing exactly what they could do from a satellite office or home office.
There are those who love the workplace vibe, and jobs that are hand on with things that can only be done in person. They should absolutely have that.
Those who no longer want that commute, high cost of living, crowded cities - I get that too and if a company does not make it worth it to work in those conditions, people leave.
That means the people making the game are no longer there impacting project delivery and schedule for DF patches going forward. That is what the Twitter post is about.
Yes, several times. I have also been to Blizzard several times and met the people in question. Had long talks with them. There are fantastic things about Blizzard as a company, and the game teams are one of them. Management at the top is not, generally speaking. Although Mike Morheim was a very nice guy.
I want happy game development teams - which includes everyone from QA to artists, to music, to voice over, to server engineers, to coders, designers, etc. It is not made by a couple high paid big names. It takes a large team, and I prefer them to feel the job is worth it and to keep making content.
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It kind of is. WFH is a privilege, not a right. Companies want their property (not the workers) in a centralized location that they own. That’s why WFH works for a niche amount of jobs because the overhead to supply the workers with what they need is relatively cheap to the responsibilities they have.
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I’ve worked in IT for 20 years and the thought of having to drive all over Orange County CA because everyone is WFH with our equipment sounds like an absolute nightmare.
WFH gave us the Arthas ghost fart… so not really a fan.
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Everyone agrees with you buddy.
The problem you’re having is figuring out whose responsibility this falls on. I’ll give you a hint, it’s not the employer.
Adults make their own decisions. You are given a work contract, and you either accept that or you don’t. Many companies are making the mistake of requiring 3-days/wk in the office. This means talent with opportunities will take them, and your business will be worse off.
If you’re in the situation of a Blizzard dev, the correct choice is to find another job.
Again, that’s not what this thread is about. It is about Blizzard hiring and retaining quality developers, and then ignoring their insight.
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Just imagine having to pay for more equipment just so the ones in the building gather dust. Not a fun prospect for anyone.
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Like Chicago or most other inner cities.
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You do know someone actually OWNS that apartment, right?
Who do you think is renting it in the first place?
BOOMERS? Really? What a dumb assumption. I’d take a comment more seriously without the ageism. And no, I am not a boomer, I am Gen X.
I live near NYC and manage a team in a public library. We don’t pay well in my industry either. And I bend over backwards to retain talent - many of whom hold advanced degrees - because I damn well know I cannot pay well. My budget is set by local government and is the minimum of what they are legally required to allocate, unlike acti-blizz, who make money hand over fist. So I am flexible with their TIME. It isn’t hard. Corps are just greedy.
Workers SHOULD leave, and let the industry suffer. Sadly, a lot of young folks just wanna make video games for a living and accept low pay in order to do it. They hold the power though - if management (boomer or otherwise) don’t have the talent, they don’t make games. It’s on the young, ESPECIALLY the huge pool of Millennials and Gen Z, to organize and demand better. We Gen X are too few to make much of an impact when it comes to sheer numbers.
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That’s not the right question. Blizzard is on thin ice with the playerbase, and many haven’t returned since Shadowlands. I expect them to conduct business in a way that makes them money. Hemorrhaging good developers is a bad idea.
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This is a real-world opinion from someone with adult experience. Once you live long enough and understand your employer/employee relationship - you will come to this conclusion.
Be good at something, have leverage. If you’re getting strung along, leave.
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That may be part of it overall, but that is not what the Twitter post was about. Hence not what the thread is really about which is why so much of the thread was about labor conditions, pay, and work locations. Quality of life matters and COVID was a big wake up for a lot of people who realized they don’t want that commute life anymore. Either companies allow reasonable work from home for jobs it suits, or people go to jobs that do. Pretty simple. That then impacts projects those people were on, like DF that was made almost entirely post COVID (2020). Concepts and story were certainly started way before, and I am sure they are on the next expansion already, but the core work on the content was during the WFH period.
They took their computers and even office chairs (if wanted) home for Covid. Not saying they did not need to get any additional equipment, I am sure they did, but they used what they could from the office first.