All that work implementing a system like that and all a clever player has to do is either kick you or just sit in the corner until you disband. What percentage of your keys would you say end in someone bailing on you?
People are always so quick to jump to punishment. Why not reward people for staying? If someone voluntarily leaves (not kicked because that could cause a different issue) why shouldn’t the group be able to finish that key somehow.
They could even make checkpoints where when you kill at least one boss, the group can call it and get partial credit.
How do I take responsibility then? How do I know then? I don’t want to use Raider io because that doesn’t tell the whole story, it sure doesn’t tell a whole lot about mine (apparently). I nearly completed season 2 but gave up because of these issues as I stated. There’s no repercussions for those that like to cause trouble who are clearly loud enough to cause issues to who are a target, I likely was one apparently and chances are they were avoiding it by using different characters.
I’m honestly more envious you CAN get around without problems as much as I do but because you don’t have much of a issue, doesn’t equate to what others have gone through. And it still doesn’t warrant why we shouldn’t have something in place for players who decide to cause problems for others trying to legitimately trying to enjoy the game (Or what’s really left of it). I much rather know WHY you’re against something that seems like it wouldn’t affect you at all than placing blame that I am doing a terrible job picking my groups because of someone’s experience doesn’t mean squat when we’re among the millions of players who have a entirely different experience from your own.
If they added a way to track the number of abandoned keys, that would help quite a bit when making a group. I’d be very hesitant to invite people that are prone to leave groups
Abandoned of course would mean leaving the dungeon before the timer expired.
you know how you get around it? MAKE FRIENDS.
if you had a good run then ask people for their discord or btag. as you get more people to form groups with that way the less pugs you have to pull from lfg.
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Only people that send me btags are people that are desperate for a tank. Really bottom of the barrel desperate
You can’t pug m+ without raider io, which is exactly why they added it to the base game. If you refuse to use it, you’re just not going to get very far. That leaves raiding and pvp for you I guess.
The week’s affixes and the dungeon you’re running should give you some things to look for. A simple example would be something like…say it’s an explosives week. I want a hunter in my group. I want a lust and a battle res, although I can live without the res (pun!). You need the right mix of melee and caster.
If you’re doing higher keys, you need a tank that’s going to show you the route. Absent those things, I’m not going to play with that group as I don’t like my odds. Doing keys is sort of like gambling. You give yourself the best chance to win, but you need to accept the fact that you can still lose. The most important thing is the IO of the other players. You just have to utilize that tool if you want to be successful.
I’m against a punishment because it’s passing the buck and it just wouldn’t work. No one is going to allow themselves to get some kind of debuff. They’ll either kick or you or just sit in a corner until someone else quits. These toxic leavers that you’re worried about will absolutely abuse a system like that.
So when we push our 20 keys we can have infinite amount of tries.
Sounds good to me.
everyone’s gotta start somewhere. if you’re doing a lot of +2s and not working up from there with the people you’re grouping with then idk. you can look at my profile and see what i’ve done. nothing impressive but i’m working on stuff and trying to get better. if you wanted to group with me (assuming you’re horde) you could btag me. i come with a free pocket healer. 
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M+ does not have any weekly lockout. You always have infinite number of tries. This is just a time saver so you don’t have to level up a key from 19 to 20, to then try to do 20 again .
It’s not easy getting your hands on the right key, big part of pushing io is getting the right keys.
People that actually waste their time pushing keys do a ton of random keys to get the ones they need to get 1 shot at it.
If you were able to just reset keys at will it would make pushing io way easier.
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It would only make pugging harder and the requirements higher, because I would not accept a lesser geared character or a low score in my group out of fear of losing score. So the people who are currently having a hard time getting into pugs would essentially have ZERO chance of getting in one
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almost guaranteed they’re just picking whoever has the highest ilvl, not even checking covenants or making sure they have a lust/soothe/whatever
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How many times are we gonna go around this barrel?
People leave keys because their objective has failed. If you invite people who’s objective is different from yours, who’s “fault” is that?
Invite like minded people. It’s premade for a reason.
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I pug probably 90% of my dungeons, because my friends are always busy with their own static. I’m pretty darn picky with who I bring to keys unless I’m doing like a <+5 on an alt, but the number of asshats who do stupid crap and then drop group (or drop group after one death, usually to someone standing in some kind of one-shot… which is always “hilarious” because I’ve timed keys with way more deaths, even high keys) is way higher than I’d prefer.
Just cause you’ve been lucky doesn’t mean the problem doesn’t exist.
It’s a little unreasonable to expect people to be mind readers and predict which random player out of the list of potential applicants isn’t going to rage at a single accidental pull or death and brick the key.
I honestly don’t see it happen a lot.
maybe because I’m a tank and therefore have one of the more critical roles locked down. But in my experience people leaving groups isn’t something that happens to the degree that GD would have us believe.
that said, I think the best “solution” to this problem is for keys to have 3 charges, and not deplete unless failed 3x. That way if someone leaves a group, they keyholder has a chance to try again.
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Here’s a trick you can do.
Just type into party chat “I don’t really care if we time this, I just need it for completion. Is that cool with everyone?”
There. Expectations are set.
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What makes you think that putting your key in makes 4 other people indentured to you? You get to control the actions of exactly 1 player in the game. Everyone else gets to make their own choices, even when it is inconvenient for you.
Talk to the people that you invite and find out if they want to finish for the vault or if they’re only looking to stay if it’s on time. People who want to time it will tell you. It’s a waste of their time to leave a key early too. Look for other players who just want the key completion. There are plenty of them. It will require that you talk to players though. They aren’t just 4 disposable NPCs. They are people. Find out what they want and see if it matches what you want. If it doesn’t, move on.
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It sounds like you’re either not as picky as you think, or you’re being picky about the wrong things.
Why read minds? There is a built in chat function in game that you can use before the key starts in addition to a discord option. How are you this bad at problem solving that mind reading is your go-to at this suggestion?
I mean, a lot of times I do care, but again, so many times a mistake is made and people leave despite it being still entirely possible to time the key. I had a tank drop in a +8 DoS on an alt because two people got knocked off the ring from the trash that does the big blow-back. I’ve timed way higher keys with way more than 2 deaths (heck my very first timed +20 Plaguefall had over 10 deaths in it, never expected to time it haha but we pulled it off), so this was very much a “why the heck” moment for me.
If it becomes obvious to me that we aren’t timing and people are seeming reluctant, I often do express my opinion in party chat as to whether or not I’d rather continue. But IMO if half the folk who raged and quit just kept going at a steady pace, a lot of those “bricked” keys that never got completed would have been timed.