I would actually put a little more into this one. Due to a bad run previously, when we posted for last night knowing we only wanted completion, we made it as clear as possible that is what it was for.
Dungeon: Select dungeon (mythic keystone)
Title: +n for completion
Description: “Will try for time, but plan to finish either way”
Run Type: “Completion”
Yes, fewer people will come in, but it makes it REALLY clear that is what it is for. You are looking for someone capable to complete it, and will probably not get the higher scores, but if you look at the way things are right now, people are at higher scores because they are willing to leave other people’s keys. The most you can do is put them on your ignore list so you don’t play with them later.
There are alot of reasons to accomodate players laziness, why do you think a large portion of the playerbase dont even touch M+?
There is a lot more trouble vs reward for people that pug, especially as a dps player.
What does Blizzard have to lose by making content more accessible to more people lazy or not? Alot of people just don’t engage in M+ at all.
Don’t label people who refuse to sit in queue for 20-30min+ as lazy, some people have very limited spare time and cannot wait 20-30 for a key.
The options and methods have been available since M+ started yet we are still having the same issues 3-4 years ago.
If the solution is get good or get lost we will be losing even more people.
Companies need to adapt if they want to stay alive, it’s not their job as people are expected to navigate the current system properly but some are just unable to.
With the constant feedback given by these players Blizzard could easily implement a compromise like someone suggested like you get a disband vote 3 times per key.
I’m sure people pushing higher keys will have no issue with that and itll reduce the amount of angry people when keys do brick in pugs.
Also I feel like you are unable to empathize with many of these players, if you’ve actually experienced some of the things that people complain about I don’t understand why you would be against changes implemented by Blizzaed to help with the accesibility of M+ dungeons.
I always put “completion” on my keys. Even if I’m trying to time something, I don’t want people leaving. It should go without saying that people want to complete a key when they start one but some players in this game are dense.
I also have had people leave “completion” keys before and they only lied about wanting to complete in order to get into the group. Once one thing goes wrong, they’re gone.
I disagree, I actually think every role has an equal trouble vs reward argument here, a dps player is not special.
The same could be said about Pet Battles, PvP, Raids, etc.
There is tons of content in this game for a wide variety of people and no it may not resonate with you but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t resonate with others either.
If you don’t engage in the system, that’s okay and that’s what people don’t get.
So make 4 friends and jump into a key at your own pace without wasting time.
Any infinite progression system is going to always be based around this premise at some point, that’s just how scaling versus player skill works.
You can step into Mythic 0 or a low keystone without being good and still time it. As you climb the ladder, expectations change and you either elect to meet or exceed those or you have to accept the fact that your difficulty cap is X.
Exactly. This is an example of vetting beyond score. You’re stating your objectives, and it’s actually better that fewer people are applying because it means people who don’t share your objectives will self select themselves out of your candidate pool. People who don’t share your objectives are the ones who will most often quit.
No, there aren’t.
For a vast multitude of reasons, none of which should encourage Blizzard to make changes to bring them into content they don’t want to do.
It’s already fully accessible to everyone who pays a subscription. The choice is theirs if they want to engage with it. If they’re too lazy to find a group then they have decided that M+ is too much work for them and that is fine. Not everyone raids, not everyone does M+, not everyone does pet battles, etc. Blizzard doesn’t need to compromise what people like about the various content types in order to lure people in who aren’t interested.
I didn’t, and there are other options available to people besides just applying to groups in the group finder if time is an issue.
Yes, and people will continue to have them until they use the tools that are available.
Nothing in my post said “get good”. Its solely about taking responsibility for the choices you make and using the tools available to create the experience you want.
Ya, I explicitly state that the purpose is to complete (assuming it isn’t going to be a massive non-stop wipefest) instead of simply relying on that check box. I get each person to give some form of acknowledgement. Usually that does the trick. Sometimes though you’re right, and people are douche’s.
At the end of the day… invite random people… get random results.
Want consistent results? Stop inviting random people and start making (and playing with) friends.
No, it shouldn’t go without saying. There are plenty of players that see no benefit in finishing a key past the timer and think that players who want to complete a bricked key are the “dense” ones. The great thing is, each player gets to decide for themselves how they want to play, and all we have to do is make a little effort to make sure we’re grouping with the players who share our goals.
I’m going to start taking screenshots of all the declines my tanks gets. Even in the latter 1/3rd of S2, when everyone is 250+ and I’m nearly 2200 (nothing amazing but competent), I often struggled to get even a single run in on some weeks (especially the easy weeks).
I’d believe you if you said anything sub 10 since why the frick would a half decent tank want to do those…quite frankly, the group quality of sub 10 keys really go downhill and even an 8 or 9 can actually be argued to be harder than 10 because of the lack of the seasonal affixes.
It’s certainly better than the struggles of solo non meta DPS, but it isn’t like I sign up and get auto invited to the first 15/16 I pick either. Pug community standards are outrageous at the best of times and insanely ridiculous at the worsts. I’ve literally done runs and gone back to do more and seen the same groups listed when clearly refreshed times.
Also as someone who will regularly run my own key if I have one I want to do, it’s by far healers who often take the longest to find and often I’ll literally pick the first decent ilvl and IO score that signs up just to get the run going. I got better things to do than sit all night waiting for a resto shammy or holy pally to sign up because that’s what some dorks with spreadsheets say is meta.
That’s not how the score works… The score only goes up, it never goes down. People get a high score by completing/timing higher keys. Nothing to do with whether they leave them or not.
Edit: I agree with the rest of your post, just not that part.
I figured it would only increase the chance of them not leaving, but there is never a guarantee. We were only pugging one person last night, so we also just validated as well.
The one thing I have noticed: most people don’t read descriptions or see the option selected, so if it’s not in the title, it was never really communicated.
Rather than adding a debuff, I’d like to see a larger system put in place, bigger than an IO score, that measures all kinds of player performance so that more effective players get grouped with more effective players. Whether you desert a key that failed the timer is one thing, but overall dps compared to the group is another, use of dispels and interrupts is another, time spent standing in bad is another, HoT uptime is another, time spent with/without aggro while tanking, use of aggro drops for heals and dps … there are lots of ways to measure a player’s actual effectiveness, and I’d like to see more of that taken into consideration.
Then again, I’d like to see M+ converted into a LFG system (separated by tiers), so that might mean I have no basis to say anything lol.
Dps has a longer queue time on average. I will get invited within 10 seconds whenever I apply for a 15. Wouldnt be nearly as quick if I was playing a warlock or feral druid.
I agree with you but we are talking about implementing ways to get more people to engage in these content, I would say she same thing for pet battles. If they gave some type of power gain like 1% int etc I’m sure a ton of people would start doing pet battles.
I dont know why but some people just cant do that. Time restraints, anxiety whatever their reason.
I meant get good at getting into keys, as the solution right now is everything suggested on GD or do something about it yourself or dont do keys at all.
It doesnt invite new players to try out the content and alot of players are quite intimidated by the whole concept itself.
One trick I figured out (also doubles to ensure you speak the same language) was to put this into the description: Whisper me your favorite color to indicate you read this.
Then don’t invite anyone (regardless of score) that doesn’t whisper you a color.
My point was more around the idea that right now if you have a high score right now, you are really focused on success, not completion. You don’t waste time completing keys unless they are going to give you score. So, you keep queueing up hoping for a successful run, and leave if it’s not. Someone with 2k+ io right now is likely not going to waste 2 hours in a run with no value. I’m not saying this is everyone, but just seems likely.
How am I dense for wanting to finish my keys. Should go without saying that when people start a dungeon they want to finish it. Unless the group can unanimously agree or at least a majority agree to retry the key then I can agree with leaving
I had a key where someone had a home invasion in the middle of the dungeon, we managed to complete the key (overtimed of course) they came back at the end from being “afk” and told us what happened.
This is the risk with pugs, anything can happen. Leavers and afks will happen.
i leave keys with the group is obviously not confident enough to not standing in stupid. IE first pack in DoS 4 deaths because tank and DPS didnt move out of blades. i leave. if you dont want people to leave dont be potato and dont take only FotM meta players. because 9/10 times the off meta people do better them the FotM meta players.