Eh… I’d say that that is a system that is ripe to be abused by clever players. Track interrupts? So everyone races to get the first interrupt. Track dispels? Everyone races to get the first dispel. Track overall DPS? Everyone mass AoEs.
You may think some of that is a good thing, but I’m sure we’ve all been victim to an ability cast that requires an interrupt rotation and groaned when we saw that everyone interrupted on the first cast. Also, why waste up to 5 GCDs on a dispel where 1 would suffice. And sometimes… sometimes… you need focused DPS, not AoE.
While I agree that IO score is absolutely imperfect, I find it extremely doubtful that Bliz would ever be able to create a tracking system sophisticated enough to determine true player skill and present that in an easily digestible format to aid in group creation. Heck, if you reeallly want something like that… then there already is something like that available via warcraftlogs. And even then, you need some skill to know what to actually look for.
Long story short, sounds great… probably not possible.
i mean dont do stupid things and stand in stupid and there is no issues. its not worth anyones time if 2 people die pre first boss.
edit: you cant expect people to want to carry you or others its everyone job to preform and if you arent preforming well you arent getting that key done. think of it as a way the community is helping key unskilled players from gearing and attempting to ruin higher keys until they improve.
some people care more to time the keys (or not fail them so spectacularly they get no score) than simply finish it.
those people aren’t wrong, nor are the people who want to finish regardless of any score, they just have different goals. That’s why it’s so important to talk about this stuff before the key starts.
I think perhaps it could be a good idea to make your goals clear when you’re forming the group as not to manipulate people into sticking around longer than they would ever want to with a group that isn’t achieving their intended goal?
It is great that you want to get your loot with an untimed key, but a lot of players would be wasting their own time as well if they stick around past the timer. Its a little bit selfish and perhaps narcissistic to think that they owe you their time to stick around for your loot that means nothing to them.
I understand the frustration though, just be clear when forming the group to prevent it!
I get what you’re saying. I too have sometimes made similar assumptions. I do think that it really is a player by player thing. Some players actually love to help out lower dungeons for fun (raises hand). I’ll wipe with anyone so long as I think that they’re actually trying and will wipe for literally hours if they’re willing to take advice and work with me.
I agree, though that when in a completely random setting… some assumptions are going to be made. This is why I usually just recommend that people stop relying on randoms for their game experience.
For people who push keys, the score gain they get is the point of each dungeon. The loot isn’t relevant, and they will do enough for the vault regardless. For these types of players, it goes without saying that a failed key gets abandoned. Many of them may not be aware that you’re angry because they will assume that you were about to leave also.
Just as hard as it is for you to imagine someone wanting to quit early, it is that difficult for them to imagine someone who would want to stay when there is no opportunity to increase score.
This is why I always stress how important it is to talk to the people you’re inviting, because you need to make sure that what they want from the key is the same thing you want from the key. If not, it is not likely to end well.
Just because you have a longer queue time doesn’t change the fact that regardless of your role, if you PUG into a group you have the same chance that anyone else would of getting into a shotty group that either a) wastes your time and bails, b) doesn’t time the key for whatever reason, c) has repeated sideways pulls, etc.
There are certain tank specs that healers refuse to heal and there are certain healer specs that some tanks refuse to take because they’re just terrible in Mythic+ too.
They can implement all keys of ways to entice people but it will eventually fail.
Do you recall the group-finder bag rewards when your role was in high-demand? It worked well initially but tapered off quickly after people realized the reward wasn’t worth the effort.
Those are valid reasons, but if you let those restrict you then that is YOUR problem then to handle the consequences of those choices whether they’re self induced or not.
So find others who share your sentiment and step into a +2 and just test the waters. If you time it, great. If you don’t, no harm no foul.
Before SL, I was in a guild where one of the officers was very adamant about keystones being bad and all this stuff but they’ve actually taken a step into them as a part of SL and they have actually come to find them highly enjoyable.
The key was finding people to run with them who make them enjoyable.
Novel idea huh?
To be a bit fair to that poster, they stated above that they marked the key as a “completion” run and still had people leave. If you join their completion run (knowing that the point was to complete), and leave because it’s not going to time… You’re the douche in that scenario… not them.
Yeah, I’m not talking about that specific situation really, I’m addressing the idea that “it goes without saying”. The attitude that the way you play is the one, true way, and all other ways are wrong is a problem.
I prefer finishing keys regardless because I don’t really care about score and I just want to fill the vault slots. I don’t really have time to do 8 keys a week as it is, so I’d like to finish each one I start. That works for me, and I’m sure other players, but it’s not the “right” way, it’s just right for me.
Other players do 20, 30, 40 or more keys a week. The vault will always fill so finishing bricked keys is irrelevant. What they live for in the game is pushing their score as high as possible. It is a waste of their time to stay in a key that won’t be timed. There is no benefit for them at all. That’s not the “wrong” way to play. It’s just different than the way I play, and the way Debbyfrowner plays. All we have to do is make sure we don’t invite groups with both types of player and nearly all of the problems vanish.
Listing the group with the Completion tag is a good start, but like you said, some people don’t read that, so including completion in the title is even better. Adding more about the goals in the comments is even better than that, and discussing everyone’s goals and intentions before starting the key is best of all.
Should it also be recorded that the dps didn’t move out of bladed and caused the key to fail? Because that’s what actually caused the problem, not the person leaving.
If you want a way to make keys more successful then you should support that right? Unless you just want to punish people who want to leave bad experiences and trap them into doing dungeons of course.
So as long as you get what you want then it’s fine nvm what others are in the key for. Do you talk to your group about you expectations and goals before doing the key and tell them that you want to complete over time if you miss the timer?
I agree with everything in your post except the use of the word ‘little’. It’s a lot selfish to expect other people to stick around to help you when they are not getting what they want too and then to want to punish people for leaving.
Difference is I waited 5 seconds and a feral druid waited 25 minutes for the key to be bricked. The effort vs reward is drastically different, you spend a day pugging as guardian vs feral and you tell me which one had an easier time.
Yeah because the reward was so worthless that no one bothered, if they gave pieces of gear or 10k gold you’ll he seeing more tanks and healers.
Most of the time those types of gear rewards have crappy secondary stats, so I doubt that Blizzard would be able to develop a way to cater to a spec’s desired stats so that the gear rewards were actually useful in the first place.
Secondly, 10k gold is nothing when people are literally walking around with millions of gold and legendary items on some servers are going for upwards of 250k-400k just for a single base item, not to mention the 1k-3k for each missive.
So you might entice people from dead realms until they realize that 10k isn’t worth it or they get from the AH what they’ve been after and stop. On higher pop realms where AH prices are far more reasonable, 10k is an utter joke of reward much like the gold you get from the PWP weekly quest.
You know up until this patch I was all for M+ leavers, but than I ran a few pug runs and no, I don’t think there should be a leaver penalty.
It’s 9.2 and it’s been almost 18 months since SL was released, yet we still have people at 250+ iLVL with a CURRENT M+ RATING of over 1K on sub M10 keys making mistakes that cause wipes on keys. We have people who have KSM from the last two tiers and are making mistakes that wipe the group.
We have groups who cannot even do the mechanics correctly on the first boss of NW on fort week on an M7 who sit at almost 260 iLVL that cause group wipes, we have players who butt pull every enemy and their grandmothers on an M5, players who don’t know their head from their bums and than run back halfway across the dungeon because “the tank is so bad, I died because I had aggro”.
Yes, yes 1000 times, yes all of that has happened to me already and no, no I am not a baby sitter, no I will not teach someone whohas 2 x KSM what the mechanics are in a dungeon on a low key.
And yes I really had someone pull aggro because someone else butt pulled and they ran, instead of running to the tank, they ran off in the other direction and bolted for the door.
If I join your group and you have players with multiple KSM, high iLVL, good stats, but you play like you have just started playing the game, no I am not going to stick around and carry you, I’m gone and I don’t think it’s acceptable that I get punished because you can’t tell up from down.
I rather want to know why the guy left for 50% of his key. I dont care if he left the keys but more the “why he left the key?” It’s easy to call people out for leaving keys when most times it’s the people the guy partied with that’s at fault.
Upgrade is an upgrade, who are you to determine what loot people require? What if they want it for mog? People might be gearing their alt and need some in between pieces.
Yes because the guys with millions of gold will share it with everyone else that’s how it works since some people are richgold loses its valud.
My 291 piece was 110k. I’d much prefer 11 dungeons over running around herbing or questing.
As I said from the outset, these rewards may entice people to participate but it won’t be a system that is sustainable, participation will eventually drop when people get all the possible rewards or realize the reward doesn’t compensate for the activity, and we go back to tank/healer shortages.