how can you get vote kicked by two people if one was afk?
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Something that changed after the fact is different than something thatâs worked the same way, unchanged, for many years.
And itâs likely that DNA evidence didnât exist at the time, but did when released.
VTK system, which this example is completely unrelated to, is working as intended.
I mean is it really considered toxic to expect someone to actually contribute the minimum amount of effort to a group scenario?
Deliberately not participating in content an expecting someone else to carry them entirely is more toxic in my opinion, as is deliberately abusing numbers to guarantee kicking someone when they are not doing anything negative outside of expecting the minimum participation from someone.
Similar people do the exact same thing wait until someone else does all the work and then when the final azerite is about to be collected kick them for no reason just because they can.
Not exactly sure why you would condone such actions.
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If you hadnât been a douche in the group you wouldnât have received the debuff.
And if your attitude here is any indication, I can see why they kicked you.
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It doesnât create other or worse problems. As everyone here always says âif you want to do ______, do it with a friend group, donât expect strangers to be forced into doing it just because you want to.â The same applies to dungeons that the majority doesnât like. Forcing others into doing dungeons you want to do that may not be popular is not good gameplay, and it is actually fairly self-centered.
I shouldnât force someone to tank a level 70 Tempest Keep for me in BFA just to keep queues full because I want to do it.
Forcing people into doing things they donât want is what creates the problem in the first place. Honestly, queues wonât be much different for the ones people dislike, because there should be an even proportion of tanks, healers, and DPS who still like it, unless itâs really hard on one of the roles, in which case, itâs poorly designed and should be left to die a Darwinian death.
Those who want to do fringe/universally disliked dungeons still may. And the beauty of it is, everyone is doing content they like thus they contribute, and no one feels screwed out of âbonus rewardsâ which are really just the standard, so they donât feel gimped for doing what they like.
It doesnât solve vote to kick, no, but it greatly reduces the main problem and cause of why it exists, and if it substantially cuts the number of vote to kicks needed to be used, it solves a lot by making it a far less widespread issue.
No, but thereâs nothing stopping them from leaving, too. Sure theyâll get a debuff - but they also donât have to worry about 2 people allegedly doing nothing.
Agreed, but we donât know that any non-participation was deliberate. It sounds like the person wasnât as afk as the OP believed.
Which didnât happen. 3-member group, 2 of which are guildmates. Guildmates are not going to kick each other, regardless of reason. Thatâs not abuse of numbers. 2 against 1 is a majority vote in a voting situation, also not an abuse of numbers.
There doesnât need to be a reason to kick - yes, thatâs a jerk move but the system isnât going to force people to play together who donât want to do so. Nor is it the systemâs job to babysit all parties.
I donât see anyone condoning these actions. What I see is people getting upset that 2 people didnât want to play with the OP and the OP chose not to leave to form their own group assuming that afk levelling was going on.
If you have 2 you can just kick the other person with no vote.
Lmao, I love when people say working as intended. What does this mean? It is so circular. Blizzard wrote the software, and unless there is a bug, it is working as intended.
Concentration camps worked as intended.
Just because something is working as intended doesnât mean that they are right or good, by any stretch of the imagination.
Hell you could say BFA is working as intended. That is a 100% true statement, yet utterly useless
You already know what it means - the system is working the way it was intended to do so.
Has nothing to do with this thread.
If you have a suggestion for a better system, hit up that suggestion box in game or spell it out right here. But make sure that it can account for reason kicked, whether specific reason given is applicable, whether reason given actually occurred, whether player is truly afk or simply not moving their character, etc. Be specific.
And irrelevant, just like the concentration camp statement.
You keep using this word. No one is forcing anyone. I donât know what game youâre playing that forces you to do anything, but I am not forced into random queue groups for any reason.
Then itâs pointless, considering the issue in this thread is vote to kick and the debuff. Which you have yet to provide a solution to, but say that it can be fixed.
No it doesnât. Again⊠people are still going to do dumb stuff, jerky stuff, no stuff and still get kicked.
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Dude⊠an incentive is not an application of force. Itâs not arm-twisting. Hell, the incentives arenât even good, which is why I donât spend my free time tanking random Heroics for people.
Either way, thereâs no force occurring within the current system.
You do understand that this isnât accurate, yes? In order for this to work, two things would have to be true â first, that tanks and healers are played 1:1:3 with DPS and that this ratio maintains itself for niche content (both of which are demonstrably false), and second, that all of those people who want to do the same niche content have the same hours of availability, which doesnât really need to be proven false as itâs a little ridiculous to assert.
Honestly, I think you should probably make your own thread regarding random queue incentives if you feel strongly about it, but I donât see how any of what youâve outlined solves the VTK problem â youâre searching for a way to stop people from being kicked altogether, and thatâs just not going to happen. Kicks need to be possible.
Iâve watched a Mythic-geared raider jump into LFR Siege of Orgrimmar (two such people together, actually) and hold the raid hostage at Nazgrim by taunting him out of the room and resetting him constantly.
Those people needed to be kicked. They were there to derive enjoyment from the frustration of others, and all of those others were there to kill bosses and hopefully get loot.
Your line of thinking is an entirely different issue, and the one thing it cannot ever solve is malicious intent. If for no other reason than the very rare cases of malicious intent, VTK is needed. As long as humans are humans and are playing this game, we will need a means to get rid of bad actors.
If you have ideas to refine the system that allows us to do that and prevents the use of that system against non-bad actors, then I think more than just myself would welcome them â but what youâve been describing is not that. Itâs not seeing the forest for the trees.
It absolutely does reduce the problem. People donât put much effort into doing things they donât like yet feel compelled to do.
But youâre in law enforcement so I donât expect you to understand.
But it is the most simple principle of human nature.
This seems really unduly rude and irrelevant.
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You theorize that it will and thereâs absolutely no proof that it would. Random people are still random and do random things.
What is this crap you keep spouting?
I never said it solves malicious intent, in fact, I said the contrary, I said it doesnât solve it.
But it reduces Vote To Kickâs importance, as Iâve stated time and time again, because people will be doing the content they like.
And like I said, theyâre not being forced, but you have to realize the number of âefficiencyâ people who play WoW and are OCD and believe Min-Maxing is fun, and are not technically being forced into queueing randoms, yet FEEL compelled to do so because A) it has an extra incentive attached and they FEEL as if theyâre losing out on something if they donât do the bonus (which technically, they are) and B) it is the norm (random philosophy).
Weâre dealing with emotional people here who do not act with logic only.
Also, it is a solution much like the concept of quarantining during the Coronavirus. It may not cure it, people will still die of it, but by reducing the number of cases it makes it a less widespread issue.
How do you expect me to obtain proof? Build my own MMO to prove Blizzard and you wrong lmao?
What a ridiculous standard. Yes, random people will do random things, like I said, you canât eliminate it. But with knowledge of human behavior you can accurately predict things, and because I am not a game developer who is in such a position to make such a change, there is no way I can actually prove it and instead have to use logic. Logic that you say is completely irrelevant because ârandom people do random thingsâ. Just because the universe is random doesnât mean that it is impossible to predict outcomes. Otherwise, any attempt to direct, fix, or govern anything would be absolutely futile.
The point is more that there isnât any reason why someone should be punished for doing the right thing just because others choose to do the wrong thing.
Sure they can leave but that is just as disruptive of their gameplay as being kicked.
Honestly itâs probably more likely that the person was boosting their own character or something similar. Or at least that was my first thought when I read the post.
It was definitely a silly thing to try with both of them being in the same guild, 100% agree.
They didnât need to really kick them though, they could have just continued on as OP could never get them kicked with their numbers protecting them both.
They definitely used the fact that they couldnât be out voted as they had 100% of the votes to deliberately get rid of them out of spite.
Itâs similar to 3 player groups in 5 mans forcing out players, particularly before finishing dungeons simply because they can.
The person I was replying to was definitely condoning it as an act of revenge/spite.
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Itâs not ridiculous. Your claim that taking rewards away from random queues will somehow make things better is ridiculous.
If your standard isnât ridiculous, how exactly would you like me to prove it?
If it doesnât solve the problem and only theoretically reduces it, then I have to say it sounds like weâre discussing two very different subjects.
Lemme just interject something here. I do not have obsessive-compulsive disorder, however, I do find mix-maxing to a certain extent fun, and I also do a fair amount of content that I donât find particularly fun in order to extract more fun from the content that I do find entertaining.
The implication that playing for efficiency is indicative of a mental disorder is therefore somewhat insulting. I donât go around doing Azerite WQs that I donât particularly care for because I feel some need to do so to stay competitive. I do it because my guild is giving me a raid spot, and I want to both be successful as a group and not put others in a position that requires them to put forth more effort on my account.
In general, your posts in this thread sort of lead me to believe that you have a very rigid and structured way of thinking that doesnât fully understand the breadth of personality types of people who play this game. While Iâm sure that thereâs some merit to your thought process, that merit only applies when those ideas are examined by people with the same thought process, and thatâs just not a luxury anyone ever has in an MMO.
I think you should look into allowing yourself to think emotionally on occasion. Thereâs an element of empathy for people whose minds are structured differently than yours that I think you may be lacking.