10/29/2018 01:05 PMPosted by
Darethy
... Well then.
That's f*cked up.
I feel like you're steadily learning more and more about how !@#$ed up the WoW universe is with every passing day. I'm almost concerned.
Almost.
See, Night elves had it good. When they died, they went to the side of their goddess' star army after a short stint of being a nature spirit. Maybe helped some trees grow, maybe helped an ancient grow. No horrible afterlife, no shadowlands.
See, Night elves had it good. When they died, they went to the side of their goddess' star army after a short stint of being a nature spirit. Maybe helped some trees grow, maybe helped an ancient grow. No horrible afterlife, no shadowlands.
Until they're brutally sucked back into their bodies and handed a bow.
See, Night elves had it good. When they died, they went to the side of their goddess' star army after a short stint of being a nature spirit. Maybe helped some trees grow, maybe helped an ancient grow. No horrible afterlife, no shadowlands.
I like to headcanon that the Ancients are just the night elf equivalent to things like the Draenei guardians or the Protoss Dragoons/Immortals.
... Speaking of are we still sure the Draenei and Protoss aren't related?
10/29/2018 03:38 PMPosted by
Jerolan
See, Night elves had it good. When they died, they went to the side of their goddess' star army after a short stint of being a nature spirit. Maybe helped some trees grow, maybe helped an ancient grow. No horrible afterlife, no shadowlands.
I like to headcanon that the Ancients are just the night elf equivalent to things like the Draenei guardians or the Protoss Dragoons/Immortals.
You're actually not wrong.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/These_Roots_Were_Made_For_Stompin%27
https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Last_Protector
These quests imply that the spirits of Kaldorei (and likely other nature-oriented beings) inhabit the bodies of treants, and when a treant falls, they move to another one. Or at least that's how I take it.
10/29/2018 01:24 PMPosted by
Jerolan
10/29/2018 01:12 PMPosted by
Darethy
The person is asked 'Do you want to live or not?" if they choose no, they are then promptly killed and buried.
And if they say yes they're conscripted into killing their own friends and family and adding to the forsaken even more. At least the new Death Knights were sent after the Legion that would have burnt their souls as fuel for war machines anyway.
The Legion is a universal threat, the Alliance are not.
Actually, back in Cata if you didn't want to die those raised had the choice on if they wanted to join the Forsaken or not. As long as they didn't oppose the Forsaken they were generally allowed to go on their way. Lillian Voss is an example of that. She was pretty much a free agent up until this war.
Now however it seems that Sylvanas has changed the rules.
10/29/2018 04:44 PMPosted by
Syriyna
Actually, back in Cata if you didn't want to die those raised had the choice on if they wanted to join the Forsaken or not. As long as they didn't oppose the Forsaken they were generally allowed to go on their way. Lillian Voss is an example of that. She was pretty much a free agent up until this war.
Now however it seems that Sylvanas has changed the rules.
TBH, this rule was always a catch-22 for newly risen Forsaken.
The chances of survival for Forsaken trying to go it solo (especially with the need for fresh parts for maintenance) was extremely low. Voss, Faol, and Barthalomew are three very rare examples of that "choice" working out for a Forsaken; and the latter two didn't attempt to roll on their own.
Sylvanas and the Forsaken faction knew this going in, so the option ... was barely an option if you didn't want to just go back into the dirt. Its "
join the Sylvanas cult of personality, or tough it out on your own ... lets see how far you get lol!"
Derek is just a plot device to make Jaina more of a victim who deserves better and we should all feel bad for her and all the horse mounts.
This story sucked the second they had to back track at Blizzcon last year and make sure everyone knew that the Horde burned down Teldrassil and that they Alliance couldn't be the aggressors in the war.
This story sucked the second they had to back track at Blizzcon last year and make sure everyone knew that the Horde burned down Teldrassil and that they Alliance couldn't be the aggressors in the war.
I mean ... the Alliance's leader is "
peace, peace for everyone" Anduin, and our leader is "
the reason I'm not the Lich King is because I work for the Horde" Sylvanas. I'm not sure how you could have played out this scenario with the Alliance being the aggressors (without retconning Jaina's development or making Genn fundamentally betray Anduin ... again)?
Want to complain about something? Complain that she was made our Warchief in the first place. Anyone paying attention to her in Legion (when her first act as Warchief was to take ONLY her Forsaken and go off on a secret, personal chore in Stormheim ... guaranteeing she was still on her "
avoid my afterlife at all costs" character arc) should have known we were in deep trouble.
This story sucked the second they had to back track at Blizzcon last year and make sure everyone knew that the Horde burned down Teldrassil and that they Alliance couldn't be the aggressors in the war.
I can't really argue with that. It would have been a more interesting start if Anduin had to capitulate to the people in the Alliance who justifiably demand action against the Horde, Forsaken in particular, and realises he isn't running an empire where he just gets to order the other races around. Either he takes action on his terms or they do it themselves.
10/29/2018 05:12 PMPosted by
Droité
Its "join the Sylvanas cult of personality, or tough it out on your own ... lets see how far you get lol!"
Well, we keep hearing about how it's not General Hawthorne's fault that the fleeing tauren from the camp-that-shall-not-be-named were killed by quillboar or desert predators. So, applying the same logic, Sylvanas and the Forsaken aren't responsible for what happens to undead who decide to go it alone either.
10/29/2018 06:34 PMPosted by
Zuleika
10/29/2018 05:12 PMPosted by
Droité
Its "join the Sylvanas cult of personality, or tough it out on your own ... lets see how far you get lol!"
Well, we keep hearing about how it's not General Hawthorne's fault that the fleeing tauren from the camp-that-shall-not-be-named were killed by quillboar or desert predators. So, applying the same logic, Sylvanas and the Forsaken aren't responsible for what happens to undead who decide to go it alone either.
That's... not really the same logic though. Camp Taurajo was more about capturing the location, the refugees were just allowed an escape rather than imprisonment or death. It's not an apathy thing with the Forsaken, but rather knowing that independent Forsaken rarely make anything of themselves, and it's almost insurance that they won't be a threat.
It's "the civilians are innocent" vs. "they won't be a problem to us." Both are a form of "not our problem," but not necessarily interchangeable.
10/29/2018 06:34 PMPosted by
Zuleika
10/29/2018 05:12 PMPosted by
Droité
Its "join the Sylvanas cult of personality, or tough it out on your own ... lets see how far you get lol!"
Well, we keep hearing about how it's not General Hawthorne's fault that the fleeing tauren from the camp-that-shall-not-be-named were killed by quillboar or desert predators. So, applying the same logic, Sylvanas and the Forsaken aren't responsible for what happens to undead who decide to go it alone either.
No its absolutely Hawthorne's fault. He failed in his diplomacy to get the Quillboars to provide aid (which he did attempt); failed to understand the terrain enough to ensure survival of the evacuees; and lost control of TWO conscript forces that were placed under his command (resulting in firebombing the town and looting). He attempted to do the right thing, but bungled it so atrociously that he should be held accountable (and was, as he was killed by the Horde).
Also ... even as a Horde, god I'm sick of hearing about Taraujo...
I still wonder how this is going to turn out. Are the Proudmoores really dumb enough to let a Forsaken version of their son allowed back over? Like doesn't that have bad idea written all over it.
10/29/2018 07:42 PMPosted by
Breenss
I still wonder how this is going to turn out. Are the Proudmoores really dumb enough to let a Forsaken version of their son allowed back over? Like doesn't that have bad idea written all over it.
Before this whole "mind conditioning" mess came out, I had thought up a way that Sylvanas could use Derek as a "weapon" without any of this sinister mind-control mess. She could have just raised him normally (still traumatic) but released him as a mental mess back to the Proudmoores and just let them deal with him. Keep him? Then you raise the suspicions of the other noble houses or run the risk of him going off the deep end on his own. Kill him? The safer option, sure, but then you give Sylvanas a little knife of guilt to twist at a later date.
In short, it'd be a play that cost her almost nothing and would have almost a guaranteed return, even if a small one. Instead, however, we had to have the evil cranked up to 11, because nothing Horde-related in 8.1 can come within hailing distance of being portrayed as positive.
10/29/2018 06:41 PMPosted by
Droité
Also ... even as a Horde, god I'm sick of hearing about Taraujo...
Fellow Hordie who would like to echo this.
We got to kill Hawthorne.
The looters were slaughtered.
The slain villagers were given their last rites.
We can let it go now.
She burned a world tree, she killed her own soldiers with the plague, she ordered attacks against civilians but it's the ressurrection of this ONE GUY that makes Baine say "Oh she's gone too far!" ?
Like really?
She went too far AGES AGO and NOW that spineless calf decides to do something.
10/29/2018 08:08 PMPosted by
Zaluzan
She burned a world tree, she killed her own soldiers with the plague, she ordered attacks against civilians but it's the ressurrection of this ONE GUY that makes Baine say "Oh she's gone too far!" ?
Like really?
She went too far AGES AGO and NOW that spineless calf decides to do something.
8.1: The Horde Repeatedly Sits On Its Own Balls
10/29/2018 08:08 PMPosted by
Zaluzan
She burned a world tree, she killed her own soldiers with the plague, she ordered attacks against civilians but it's the ressurrection of this ONE GUY that makes Baine say "Oh she's gone too far!" ?
Like really?
She went too far AGES AGO and NOW that spineless calf decides to do something.
Cairne was a terrible father.
10/29/2018 03:38 PMPosted by
Jerolan
I like to headcanon that the Ancients are just the night elf equivalent to things like the Draenei guardians or the Protoss Dragoons/Immortals....
Speaking of are we still sure the Draenei and Protoss aren't related?
Are you implying that Protoss are descended from Night Elves?...
The Protoss Dragoon in any case is a Khala inspired piece of machinery and the Khala originates from Amon's Khaydarin Crystals(and Khaydarin Crystals especially infused with Khala energies has Amon's Red coloration by default) so wouldn't the Night Elves be connected to Amon or Duran(who once had Black Eyes like the Night Warrior Night Elves)?...