thoughts?
what i find interesting is that as zelling says he must put things right voss says this
I gave Zelling my word that his family would remain safe. I intend to keep my promise, even if I have to do it from the shadows."
https://www.wowhead.com/news=288238/8-1-ptr-broadcast-text-for-story-of-derek-proudmoore-bwonsamdi-vulpera-spoilers
thoughts?
what i find interesting is that as zelling says he must put things right voss says this
thoughts?
what i find interesting is that as zelling says he must put things right voss says this
Literally everyone disagrees except for Gallywix and one uncredited dialogue that still seems a little put off. The uncredited one even mentions the "Arrows in the Quiver" quote that points towards one of the older Forsaken.
Everybody Hates Sylvanas, now on FOX wednesday nights at 11.
Everybody Hates Sylvanas, now on FOX wednesday nights at 11.
I'm just confused as to why raising Derek is being presented as the straw breaking the camel's back. Seems pretty tame compared to all the other stuff that's happened so far.
Human potential. All those elves she's raising in the same patch don't matter, nor do the Horde forces she raised in the Battle for Lordaeron.10/28/2018 07:17 PMPosted by KurogasaI'm just confused as to why raising Derek is being presented as the straw breaking the camel's back. Seems pretty tame compared to all the other stuff that's happened so far.
10/28/2018 07:17 PMPosted by KurogasaI'm just confused as to why raising Derek is being presented as the straw breaking the camel's back. Seems pretty tame compared to all the other stuff that's happened so far.
I assume it's the "Mind break him into killing his entire family" part that's rubbing people the wrong way.
10/28/2018 07:17 PMPosted by KurogasaI'm just confused as to why raising Derek is being presented as the straw breaking the camel's back. Seems pretty tame compared to all the other stuff that's happened so far.
I can understand it for Zelling since Derek's his prince.
I guess for everyone else, it's because they are present and seeing his reaction? It's one thing to be away and hear about resurrections, it's another to see it in person and witness him freaking out. I suppose.
10/28/2018 07:18 PMPosted by ResìleafI assume it's the "Mind break him into killing his entire family" part that's rubbing people the wrong way.
And that.
So they raise someone, an act they do often enough to not make it surprising, and they suddenly decide to get butt-hurt about it, out of all the things that were done? Difference of being present for the resurrection or not, I find the sudden moral upheaval to be forced.
(b'-')b
(b'-')b
let's all rebel against the warchief again, it worked out so well last time!
why.
why.
10/28/2018 07:17 PMPosted by KurogasaI'm just confused as to why raising Derek is being presented as the straw breaking the camel's back. Seems pretty tame compared to all the other stuff that's happened so far.
Probably because its so in your face that they can't ignore it?
Like, with Teldrassil, it was such a quick decision (and no-one was in her head) that you can't really argue her true intentions; even if the act itself was horrific. The blighting of her own troops (as skeletons can actually fight in Blight, which is sort of BA ... the Forsaken should use that tactic more often) could be seen as pragmatic.
In both instances she's also doubled down on the narrative of "I did it for the Horde"; so without any clear evidence you can't really counter her on it.
The Derek thing is just ... there; and to Derek's VA's credit, it was a pretty creepy performance. His suffering, her intentions to make the attack "personal" against the Proudmoore's, and her having the ability to manipulate someone enough to have them try to murder their own family ... is bound to make anyone uncomfortable.
Some interesting stuff in there. The stuff with Derek is pretty much as expected. I liked the unrelated stuff with Bwonsamdi and especially with Tess.
But then that !@#$ing Lorash at the end... He's so focused on Malfurion, but he's going to cut his own head off with all that edge.
But then that !@#$ing Lorash at the end... He's so focused on Malfurion, but he's going to cut his own head off with all that edge.
... Wait, has Sylvanas ever actually said those words aloud? Now that I'm thinking about it I recall that being her internal monologue. Or am I mistaken?10/28/2018 07:15 PMPosted by JerolanThe uncredited one even mentions the "Arrows in the Quiver" quote that points towards one of the older Forsaken.
He's one-note enough that I doubt he'll do anything of note. He'll probably just die again trying to take on the demigod archdruid. At least someone will.10/28/2018 07:23 PMPosted by GalenornBut then that !@#$ing Lorash at the end...
So they raise someone, an act they do often enough to not make it surprising, and they suddenly decide to get butt-hurt about it. out of all the things that were done? Difference of being present for the resurrection or not, I find the sudden moral upheaval to be forced.
(b'-')b
Yeah, I still think it's stupid that it's happening over this, mind control or no.
One resurrected, mind controlled human > about a thousand Night Elves being burnt alive I guess.
and her having the ability to manipulate someone enough to have them try to murder their own family ... is bound to make even her closest allies uncomfortable.uncomfortable seems to be an understatement they look downright disgusted, while others like valentine and zelling feel disgusted and guilty
Wait, has Sylvanas ever actually said those words aloud? Now that I'm thinking about it I recall that being her internal monologue.she has
10/28/2018 07:17 PMPosted by KurogasaI'm just confused as to why raising Derek is being presented as the straw breaking the camel's back. Seems pretty tame compared to all the other stuff that's happened so far.
With the exception of Baine, they are commenting on the act of raising Derek itself, as it just happened in front of them. They aren't comparing it to past actions. Zelling and Amalia Stone probably don't know much about the events at Teldrassil and Lordaeron tbh.
Baine is the only one saying Sylvanas has now 'gone too far' and she keeps finding 'new lines to cross'. This seems to be the final one, the 'straw', for him. With Zelling, this is likely the first one (and maybe the last?).
10/28/2018 07:22 PMPosted by Droité10/28/2018 07:17 PMPosted by KurogasaI'm just confused as to why raising Derek is being presented as the straw breaking the camel's back. Seems pretty tame compared to all the other stuff that's happened so far.
Probably because its so in your face that they can't ignore it?
Like, with Teldrassil, it was such a quick decision (and no-one was in her head) that you can't really argue her true intentions; even if the act itself was horrific. The blighting of her own troops (as skeletons can actually fight in Blight, which is sort of BA ... the Forsaken should use that tactic more often) could be seen as pragmatic.
In both instances she's also doubled down on the narrative of "I did it for the Horde"; so without any clear evidence you can't really counter her on it.
The Derek thing is just ... there; and to Derek's VA's credit, it was a pretty creepy performance. His suffering, her intentions to make the attack "personal" against the Proudmoore's, and her having the ability to manipulate someone enough to have them try to murder their own family ... is bound to make anyone uncomfortable.
I don't even have to dredge up things from BfA though. What about Abominations? They've been used by the Forseken as guards in Undercity and in other conflicts throughout WoW's history. Surely, if raising one human is disturbing, those things would set off all sorts of alarm bells for anyone dealing with them.
It's just baffling that this is somehow the worst thing Sylvanas has ever done.
EDIT: It doesn't really matter if the other characters are seeing this for the first time for not - if they're trying to pass this off as a "Forsaken are going too far" moment for the players, they really need to rethink WoW's history.
Don't worry, "I'll never betray my Warchief" folks.
I'm sure they're tooooootally not going to railroad you into fighting Sylvanas by the end of this expansion.
I'm sure they're tooooootally not going to railroad you into fighting Sylvanas by the end of this expansion.
10/28/2018 07:30 PMPosted by Yrithe10/28/2018 07:17 PMPosted by KurogasaI'm just confused as to why raising Derek is being presented as the straw breaking the camel's back. Seems pretty tame compared to all the other stuff that's happened so far.
With the exception of Baine, they are commenting on the act of raising Derek itself, as it just happened in front of them. They aren't comparing it to past actions. Zelling and Amalia Stone probably don't know much about the events at Teldrassil and Lordaeron tbh.
Baine is the only one saying Sylvanas has now 'gone too far' and she keeps finding 'new lines to cross'. This seems to be the final one, the 'straw', for him. With Zelling, this is likely the first one (and maybe the last?).
Given he has a history of moving the lines of thresholds as said here, I can't really take him (Baine) seriously.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Probably because its so in your face that they can't ignore it?
Like, with Teldrassil, it was such a quick decision (and no-one was in her head) that you can't really argue her true intentions; even if the act itself was horrific. The blighting of her own troops (as skeletons can actually fight in Blight, which is sort of BA ... the Forsaken should use that tactic more often) could be seen as pragmatic.
In both instances she's also doubled down on the narrative of "I did it for the Horde"; so without any clear evidence you can't really counter her on it.
The Derek thing is just ... there; and to Derek's VA's credit, it was a pretty creepy performance. His suffering, her intentions to make the attack "personal" against the Proudmoore's, and her having the ability to manipulate someone enough to have them try to murder their own family ... is bound to make anyone uncomfortable.
I don't even have to dredge up things from BfA though. What about Abominations? They've been used by the Forseken as guards in Undercity and in other conflicts throughout WoW's history. Surely, if raising one human is disturbing, those things would set off all sorts of alarm bells for anyone dealing with them.
It's just baffling that this is somehow the worst thing Sylvanas has ever done.
EDIT: It doesn't really matter if the other characters are seeing this for the first time for not - if they're trying to pass this off as a "Forsaken are going too far" moment for the players, they really need to rethink WoW's history.
Perhaps its more to do with now that she's representing the Horde as a whole, its more offensive now that they're all implicated in her acts? Before, when she was just leading the Forsaken; it was just kind of ... ignore it.
"She's a pain in the !@#, but we need her for now."
I mean ... its pretty apparent that the conflict on the Horde side is that Sylvanas (who mind you, did not want the job) is trying to lead the Horde the same way she's always led the Forsaken, and now thing are coming to a head because of that.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Probably because its so in your face that they can't ignore it?
Like, with Teldrassil, it was such a quick decision (and no-one was in her head) that you can't really argue her true intentions; even if the act itself was horrific. The blighting of her own troops (as skeletons can actually fight in Blight, which is sort of BA ... the Forsaken should use that tactic more often) could be seen as pragmatic.
In both instances she's also doubled down on the narrative of "I did it for the Horde"; so without any clear evidence you can't really counter her on it.
The Derek thing is just ... there; and to Derek's VA's credit, it was a pretty creepy performance. His suffering, her intentions to make the attack "personal" against the Proudmoore's, and her having the ability to manipulate someone enough to have them try to murder their own family ... is bound to make anyone uncomfortable.
I don't even have to dredge up things from BfA though. What about Abominations? They've been used by the Forseken as guards in Undercity and in other conflicts throughout WoW's history. Surely, if raising one human is disturbing, those things would set off all sorts of alarm bells for anyone dealing with them.
It's just baffling that this is somehow the worst thing Sylvanas has ever done.
EDIT: It doesn't really matter if the other characters are seeing this for the first time for not - if they're trying to pass this off as a "Forsaken are going too far" moment for the players, they really need to rethink WoW's history.
There is a difference between intellectually knowing a thing, and an emotional, visceral response when confronted with derek’s pain and Resurrection. There is a reason when studies were conducted about desensitization, that most* people who started at the maximum could not “kill” the subject and had to be walked up the path overtime. This is basically that writ large. It’s personal, humans (and thus all the Warcraft races because they are written by us) are really like that. Confronting 1,000,000 deaths as a statistic or from afar is orders of difference from confronting a act of torture.