Well, there goes Classic. You can’t nerf abilities just because the community finds new ways to play. What happened to keeping it to the original game!? EVERYONE did Demo Shouts in AQ and other content for agro generation
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It was broken and is being fixed to return it to how it was in the original game. I’m not sure how you read what was posted and interpreted it any other way.
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The AOE cleave is being done without tanks. Most groups have a tank purely for the sake of the “holy trinity” of WOW.
If it’s melee it’s 3/4 warriors, and a shaman/other healer. ranged, it’s 4 mages and a healer, or a tank, 3 mages and a healer. It’s not like demo shout is truly holding all the aggro. I can spam it all day and watch mobs run away from me like I did nothing.
Yes I have been in both types of groups, so I have experience with this. Unlike a level 18 warlock.
It wasn’t broken. It was tested and played like this all throughout beta. Someone just went crying to the forums because they can’t get in groups and they decided to do it for the good of the game. They had THOUSANDS of instance logs from SM in beta to dissect all of this, they did, and made no changes.
2 Likes
Edit: misread it initially.
Still not entirely sure how it currently works and how it’s intended to work after the change.
Also, I noticed that in the patch notes for 2.0.1 it says they fixed an issue where battle shout was causing too much threat. If battle shout threat wasn’t fixed until 2.0.1, how exactly does it work in the 1.12 reference client you’re using?
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It probably broke in some late patch. The testing on beta showed it working as expected(what they’re changing it to again in this hotfix), wherein it did relatively low fixed threat to every mob and was never useful for holding threat over AoE DPS. You can quit your crying though, because everyone is about to rediscover that BS is just as good for AoE threat as DS was now that they’re “fixing” it to be just as broken strong as it was in vanilla again. BS spam will replace DS spam and you can keep playing the game on easy-mode.
Yeah because the private servers never ever got anything wrong.
2 Likes
Demo shout had a significant chunk of threat holding ability before the fix. I remember back in the day, if I never saw a sunder on a mob, I’d be scared to even DoT it as DPS because I’d get aggro.
This time around in Classic, I never saw sunders, but I could DoT everything in dungeons freely because the tank was spamming demo shout.
Also, I feel like people keep having to repeat this, but almost “anything goes” up until Scarlet Monastery. Once you start hitting the higher level dungeons, your DPS will die within a second of multi-mob aggro. AOE dungeon farming will still be possible, but way harder.
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https://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_2.0.1
Battle shout threat was nerfed in 2.0.1. Battle shout was not mentioned in any patch notes between 1.12 and TBC patches.
I think we need a detailed explanation from Blizzard as to how it currently works in Classic and how it’s different from their 1.12 reference client.
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It generates a fixed amount of threat for every party member/pet you buff. At 60 that amount is 55(before AQ book). If you buff 5 party members and a pet, that’d be 330 threat, for example. Sunder at max rank is 260. Prior to this hotfix, BS threat was being split among every mob you were in combat with. That made it pretty good for generating threat over healing aggro, but wasn’t much value for holding off DPS. It sounds like this returns it to how broken it was in vanilla when it gave that same threat to every mob, i.e. better than sundering everything you’re in combat with simultaneously for only 10 rage and can never be dodged/parried/missed.
Caveat: This seems insane to me, along with healing threat not being split like it ought to be, so hopefully I’m misinterpreting the blue note.
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So what you are suggesting is we spam battle shout instead of demo shout. Very nice change.
Ah, so battle shout hotfix is actually a buff, demo shout hotfix is a nerf.
What I’m really curious about is:
Does doing a Battle/demo shout again after the party member/mob has the buff/debuff, does that generate more threat? I have a sneaking suspicion that it is not intended to. Once your party members have battle shout, no additional threat is generated if you BS again.
No one has ever clarified this from what I’ve read, but I’d like to know.
Re-applying buffs/debuffs still generates threat.
I really cannot understand why these things are fixed so late into release while we had a several month long beta phase and everyone complaining how easy dungeons were.
It makes it harder and harder to believe that overall tuning is correct…its just sad that many already mistaken this to be real vanilla during their journey to 60 or close to that…
5 Likes
How will Demoshout and Battleshout work after the hotfix?
My understanding is that the way it’s supposed to work is:
- Demoshout: X threat applied to each mob in range and not resisted (works the same regardless of the amount of mobs applied to)
- Battleshout: Y threat, split between all the mobs currently in combat with the party, once per party member buffed (so, effectively Y / #of-mobs * #of-party-in-range)
Am I correct?
Also:
healing spells, effects, and buffs to incorrectly split the threat they generate between enemies that had members of the buffed party on their threat list.
How does this affect heals? My understanding is that 100 healing would cause 50 threat (before talents) split between all enemies. Does this mean it will now cause 50 threat to each enemy?
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Read the Patch 2.0.1 notes. The battle shout threat bug was present during all of classic.
- Fixed an issue where Warrior “Battle Shout” was causing too much threat.
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- Your Demo shout calculation looks right
- According to what Rallik and the blue post is saying, it sounds like Battleshout’s threat generation will be more like:
Y threat * (party members + pets in range) -> applied in total to each mob individually. So Battleshout will not have a dividing effect, which sounds like that’s how it was before it was fixed in patch 2.0.1. - Your healing threat calculation looks right.
This is what I understand from the blue post as well, but I’m hoping it’s not the case because then Battleshout would essentially be an infinite range AoE Sunder-but-better. And it would be more or less mandatory to prevent healer aggro, too.
I guess I could get used to it, but I would like to see another blue post with more details about this.
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Well that didn’t age well.
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