Can be geared and still be bad.
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I mean it’s Maizou. It’s not a bad bet that anyone there friends with is also not good.
Talk about the straw man. The argument has nothing to do with players who can facerool a delve. The argument is that the difficulty of a T8 delve is orders of magnitude lower than the difficulty of a +6, despite dropping the same loot (mostly; the +6 end of dungeon reward is 1 upgrade level higher than delve and the delve vault loot is one upgrade level higher than the +6 vault).
Yes, there are some people who will happily claim a T8 delve is easy, full stop. But I am not because that is a ridiculous statement; things are only easy relative to a person’s aptitude, skill, and experience. There are people for which tying their shoelaces is difficult.
But relative to any single person, a T8 delve will be easier than a +6, especially since nothing stops people from grouping up for the delve. A person who can faceroll a T8 delve might be able to succeed in a +6. But a person who finds a T8 delve challenging is likely going to be a full carry in a +6.
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As it stands they don’t have to do other content because nobody is forced to go above 4/6.
However, take away the option and you flat out disincentivize doing other content, because at that point you need a track upgrade to even consider upgrading.
Where it stands is perfectly fine. If the potential for delve only remains at 619 either way then having the option to upgrade pieces to 5/6 or 6/6 provides an immediate incentive to at least try moving into other content.
It’s a benefit to have it where it is.
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Can confirm.
I have 13 max level alts and I’ve geared them all to 610+ through delves and I’ve gotten a total about the same as yours (10)
You would have to be out of your mind to try and farm maps, especially without keys, because without keys you don’t get any loot at all aside from a few crests and junk.
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But there are peoooe that are trying too and it’s causing other issues.
Then they ask for selves to award gilded crests and that presents a whole other issue.
It’s not fine.
If 619 is fine then it shouldn’t matter to you if that 619 is achieved on a champion piece or a hero piece. It’s fine.
That’s what happens when people try out other content. Blizzard doesn’t need to discourage people from trying M+. Community has that job wrapped up already.
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It’s a net negative for the people that have to deal with them though.
As mentioned in the interview, the people trying to do what you’re explaining, are hitting a “cliff”.
Capping it a 8/8 Champ with the same ilvl takes away the psychological need to fill the 4/6. Keeps them from having to do other content, keeps them content that they were able to max their track level, and no one goes stepping on anyone elses toes
I have to deal with them as well and I disagree. More people in the pool is a long term benefit to the content. Short term hiccups are something I’m willing to deal with.
This problem is solved by finding a group to run with. Otherwise it is standard pug problems.
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No, not always.
High turnover rates are a bad thing. That’s what that’ll lead to. Not to mention frustration on the existing pool.
I would like more people in m+ for sure. Don’t get me wrong. But I want people who want to be there. Who are willing to take it seriously (as far as a game goes) and actually tries. Not someone who’s just there and doesn’t care about succeeding or failing, so long as they get their crests to upgrade their gear.
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PuG problems are par for the M+ course and are still solved in the same reliable way. Playing with friends.
“I want to PuG but I want Blizzard to do my vetting with a built in system of gatekeeping” has never been the reasonable ask.
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For sure. But let’s keep things in perspective:
Delvers are made for solo’ers - your answer to everything is play with friends…okay, so the people in delves will never get a group as they play solo, and everyone else is forming a group with friends.
So they’ll never get a group in m+, they’ll never upgrade their gear, so capping it at 8/8 champ so they can max their gear track is an overall positive thing.
Putting people into content they do not want to be in is also not a solution (we’ve seen this in the past with forcing pvp onto pve and vice versa).
When you have alternate avenues of content with overlapping rewards this is always going to be the case. Expecting all avenues of content to be perfectly balanced within itself and simultaneously with each other is just never going to happen. My guess is intentionally so.
Depending on your class and if you are at the appropriate ilvl range its not exactly an untrue statement. Yes individual skill comes into play but T8 delves aren’t super hard content. I die more often from the big drop at the start of Fungal Folly then I do to anything else in delves all week long. 
I just don’t see it as the faceroll content for all players and all classes that some others are claiming it to be. The devs say they are happy with the content so I think it is fine. And no I don’t really think M+ needs looked at either, I was being intentionally facetious though I expect some of the trolls to not notice.
Yep and like I said I assume that is intentional. It is an avenue for people that aren’t going to be rolling into M+. If people can roll a +6 they should really stop worrying about T8 delves.
Everyone is just arguing in circles at this point.
Rewards have nothing to do with difficulty.
T8 at a base level is extremely easy in comparison to the other content around it
Sure, just as soon as the people who can’t roll a +6 would stop coming into +6 because that’s the next step
Well you get either one of two types of players there. M+ players who are just bad, have always been bad, and will always be bad. And people who are new to M+ and just want to explore the content and I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. If you don’t like pug’ing with people that might not be 100% certain to clear your key then make your own groups, problem solved.
They aren’t made for soloers. They are made for WoW players. Some of us don’t like them, others do, but there is no one specific stereotype that they are made for.
They’re welcome to pug just like everyone is welcome to pug. Nobody needs to find a group but if you have complaints about M+ pugs you have the option to try.
I couldn’t do a +6 until I did a +6. Then I could.
I don’t understand the “came out of the womb clearing 10s” mentality that some people think they should have here.
Having gear that is 4/6 does not put people into content they don’t want to be in. Having hero drops from delves does not put people into delves either. You make those choices on your own.
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Remember when it was the end of the world when Blizzard introduced purple tier improved dungeon sets in classic?
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Nobody’s expecting perfect, but T8s are closer to heroic dungeons than +6s and +7s. It’s not even in the same ballpark.
/shrug I thought M+ didn’t really ramp up till you got into the +8 range? All in all when talking about Mythic+ or raids top end delve gear is barely starter gear for that content. This is a whole lot of gnashing of teeth over nothing.
Hero track gear is not starter gear for M+ or raids. Hero track is the second highest you can get
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