Outside of guilds that race for World Firsts or top % PvP nothing in WoW, or a majority of mmo’s really, take what one would consider “skill”. MMO’s just aren’t designed for it. They are all based on rewarding time and repetition not skill.
Folks that keep harping about skill and difficulty are either just trolling or generally just awful at video games.
I have found that the people who say games don’t take skill are the ones who don’t actually have any.
Take a dungeon runner in 586 gear and see if they can time a d8.
What’s that you say? Delves don’t have a timer? Then why are you comparing timing a dungeon to delves?
What is the problem that people gear through Delves? Same argument can be drop to M+ and Raids.
Why people are gearing through M+ and not Raid? NERF M+ rewards!
Let solo people get gear in their own way. There are multiple choices and options to play the game, none of them mandatory. Isn’t like the BiS gear drops from Delves neither, you are replacing it at the first chance anyway (mostly of trinkets are tier C and below, just to drop an example).
And don’t be binary: if someone is doing Delves, that doesn’t mean that person don’t enjoy M+ and vice versa. Same with Raids and M+. It’s another option with nerfed rewards, chill (the roof is a +7 equivalent with crest spent, which requires M+ farming anyway).
Live and let live, it’s a game after all and don’t do mansplaning commanding other people how to play the game.
aka they are way too easy for the gear that they give out.
delves basically got rid of doing keys up to a 6 by providing the same rewards for content that is brain dead. they eithier need to make delves harder or drop the gear potential to balance it with other content in game.
100%
From T8 on, delves are anything but “braindead”. Just because they are solo content doesn’t make them less difficult. You’re just a M+ player that thinks only M+ players deserve anything worthwhile because M+.
If people would stop and consider what delves actually drop, they wouldn’t be so quick to judge. You only get 584 gear from non-bountifuls and 603 from bountifuls. The hero track is one piece per week IF you run 8 delves. While I enjoy running them, it’s still a lot to do in a week just to get that one piece.
I’d say the rewards are where they should be, especially when you consider going into S2, delves are unlikely to keep pace with other content from an item level perspective.
You get roughly one hero track piece per twenty t8+ delves run, it’s just all RNG so sometimes you’ll have a drought and sometimes you’ll get multiple in one day.
My main has received an upgrade every time I fulfill my vault requirements. I know not everyone is so fortunate, especially with cloakmageddon, but this is a perfect example of how the hero track rewards are no guarantee and so, not so easy to earn, even if you do everything necessary.
I don’t see how anyone would get multiples in one day unless you get the map, which is even more RNG.
Considering most people are clearing tier 8 delves once hitting level cap it’s really not that hard.
Delves are the easiest pillar in the game. If you’re failing t8s it’s a pebcak issue.
I’m comparing the difficulty my guy. Try to keep up.
Nobody is blaming “Delve players” for this. Blizzard obviously tuned the rewards from delves very high to get people to try this new feature. That was a success.
Now it’s time to come back to reality and actually tune the mode appropriately so the rewards are commensurate with the difficulty.
We unlocked tier 8 delves the day they were made available and haven’t done anything lower than that since, because you can take a freshly dinged 80, get some AH gear, rep gear from the quartermasters, some 580 delve undercoin vendor gear, and go straight into Tier 8 delves.
There is effectively no progression with delves.
You start at tier 8 and that’s also the end of the gear rewards from delves.
If they’re going to have a soloable alternative for progression, at least let blizzard design something where there is actual progression.
Drastic, but worth some thought.
Seems like M+ is causing issue with some people that pug, but not with guilds at all. Maybe just get rid of those players? Start handing players that leave keys one-week lockouts. That should thin the herd of whiners. Make M+ great again.
Except we aren’t talking about the top 1% here. They are in guilds happily pushing higher keys. Or they have a large enough pool of friends outside of guilds to do the same. We’re looking at the dregs of M+ here, and listening to their tale of woe.
So much in such a small space. I think I agree with you, but I’m not sure what you mean exactly.
Yes, nerfing rewards does change the player experience of the content. Nerfing always does. It doesn’t matter if players ever used that gear to go on to something else or not, it’s a perception.
I think the hang up here, and in most of these posts, is equating all rewards as being gear rewards. We do need rewards for doing things in game. Those rewards aren’t always gear and they don’t always need to be gear to make the experience enjoyable.
So, if you meant that, I get it. If not, then I guess I missed it.
No. They should get a cosmetic at the very least. Maybe a shirt with flavor text that says, ‘I did M+ and all I got was this lousy shirt’. Or maybe a companion pet.
Anyway, there’s just a small group of people doing their best to troll or ‘punch down’ and they can safely be ignored. Blizzard has the metrics.
Actually I’m a ce player. And no t8s were braindead since week one.
By most credible accounts t11s aren’t more difficult than level 8 keys.
I just think the reward should equal the challenge regardless of difficulty
CE and high keys have a pretty low clear rate and high failure rate for not requiring any “skill.”
It’s 4 keys a week. You don’t even know how the system works…
Sure the let’s see other than armour piece the ring the trinkets the neck from the great vault from doing delves even if it is hero track are bad. Only armour piece are ok wince you can turn them into tier piece.
4 keys a week.
You can do 4 bountiful runs a day.
You can stockpile keys and even purchase keys if your renown is high enough.
Apparently neither do you.
Delves have some of the best caster trinkets in the game right now.
Bingo!
I am very happy with where my characters are at with delves and have zero interest in m+
Keys get expensive quick and by the time you can do that you’re already decked in 603 (which is apparently close to the best gear in the game) anyway.
For what spec really love ti cross defence your so call delves is trinket against some of the guides out there written by actually elist and other website such as wow head and raider io and see what top ranked players are using