Even when Blizzard agrees with you…
we still make these threads.
1 dollar vs 4 quarters mentality.
One sounds more valuable.
Issues of the ill-informed
3 Likes
I wish they would just put a timer and let the gear scale infinitely. Maybe even add like temporary buffs to mobs in the delves week to week. To spice things up. :S
If you can stay out of the bad in a delve that one shots you. You can do the same in a mythic that would one shot you. Same goes for kicking casts.
And there is nothing more skillful about being in a group of 5 people. Thinking that end game gear should only come from two places is kinda wild, and leaves the game with limited options to please gamers of different types.
No one would ever have guessed this from the opinions you have stated. You seem to care a whole lot. Why else would you be absolutely blanketing the forums with posts to that effect?
13 Likes
I’m saying that decent gear makes repetitive grinds a little less painful, and I don’t see any good reason why they should be nerfed so somebody else can feel better about themselves with their superior gear score.
And yes, I do hate M+…actually, I despise it, and 90% of the players who engage with it, so at least you won’t have to worry about running into me and my delve gear, huh? lol
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I mean… That seems to be what blizzard are doing with reworking horrific visions, but players are up in arms about it.
They wanna leave delves as untimed largely casual content, so they’re bringing back something else to offer the higher difficulty / aspects of difficulty delves aren’t well suited to providing.
I doubt the gear they offer will be farmable, likely limited or vault based same as delves.
4 Likes
Feedback of course.
I dont care what gear you have. I think delves are tuned too low for their rewards. Delves can keep Hero track gear or whatever, so long as the difficulty warrants it.
But its hard to design content meant to be done alone, to that point.
I agree. I do think they should be nerfed to match their difficulty though.
I thought visions had a timer? I ran a total of 2 so i may be misremembering
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Eh, no thanks. That sounds miserable for gearing up alts, and frankly I like being able to switch up how I play without it taking forever for an alt to be viable at higher difficulties.
I think if they’re having a harder time gearing up, maybe they should explore delves and M+. Frankly the player who devotes more time diversifying how they play and where they try to get loot deserves to get geared faster. They put in the time, and regardless of how ‘easy’ delves are, it still is a time commitment, and I’m a fan of the developers respecting my time.
Having gearing take needlessly long would just be padding, and WoW players traditionally hate that kind of thing.
4 Likes
You spend more time doing delves then you would otherwise because its ez.
If you want to do keys youre stuck doing content you hate because its more optimal.
No one is saying delves ppl shouldnt get gear or have a path (well i do because delves blow and i want more dev time towards more dungeons). Everyone else reasonable is saying it needs to be harder to match the other games content/reward structure.
Visions did have a timer with sanity drain, though it was largely moot after a few weeks.
The main feature of visions was that your run failed due to an accumulation of mistakes. If you took unavoidable damage you lost some sanity, and it didn’t matter if you were a tank, mage, priest, rogue, whatever. That hit affected everyone the same.
Using the sanity bar as a sort of error margin check is a great way to make role agnostic mechanics threatening without feeling unbalanced or unfair. I’m honestly shocked they didn’t use it for zekvir.
2 Likes
visions had the sanity meter, so yea.
I don’t know why gear rewards are an issue when you get seasonal rewards for ksm etc. I thought that was the end goal, not having ilvl xyz gear for a couple months.
Even if we all eventually ended up having the same ilvl rewards we’d still have different achievements and rewards depending on what content we did.
It’s not like die hard solo players would suddenly go and be like “heh! now I have this champion track gear I’ll invade m+ and ruin others’ chances to get into keys 
”. They’ve begged for a solo pillar for years to be able to avoid m+ like the plague and still feel a sense of progression throughout each patch.
Now if other people who usually only do m+ suddenly do delves to gear up initially, that’s not really the main delve audience’s fault nor should they be punished for it.
It might just indicate even m+ players enjoy delves more (all things like queues, gear, difficulty, etc. considered) and I don’t see the issue with that with how delve rewards are structured but with m+.
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Just don’t do delves if you’re not enjoying doing them. Plenty of people who enjoy delves don’t feel pressured to do M+ to get gear because they just don’t enjoy doing keys. Why can’t you do the same?
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Alts have been, for some time now, easier to gear up with their catch ups. That doesnt have to change.
Thats the issue. You shouldnt have to go to other forms of content. Some of the restrictions and limiters dont make sense. Increase raid loot to 40% to match m+ and i think weve got a winner
Most raiders do play into m+ and delves though. I was just speaking from how raids are designed
Some raids put 6-10 hours into a raid and yield nothing because they couldn’t down the boss. Time is a false equivalency
Im not fully disagreeing with you though. Someone whos going to put in the sweat blood and tears by playing more avenues.
But lets look at time again. I have 4 hours a week to play. I spend 4 hours with my raid group, i get 20% the loots.
I spend 4 hours with my m+ group, i get twice the loot at 40%
Because its the fastest way to gear
Idk why thats hard to understand
Pre delve ppl did m+ for gear over raid cause it was easier.
Path of least resistance. If literally everything about delves is the same except you need to do higher levels for hero track whats it even matter?
They may do something of the sorts. They did say there was going to be another similar end delve encounter in S2
Getting a reward to progress and make your character stronger is a dopamine hit and keeps you playint longer
I don’t know about you but I don’t play this game just to get gear. Gear is just a tool so I can do my preferred content easier. If I prefer doing M+ the most, I’m just gonna do M+. If delves are a slog for me to do to supplement gear that I didn’t get doing M+, I’ll just do more M+, which would just be doing more of the content I prefer to do.
I don’t see why that’s hard to understand. Which content do you prefer doing in this game?
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You think so? I don’t know man, I feel like with the focus on the Warband system in TWW, gearing up an alt feels SO much more fluid, and I’m actually really happy with the state of it right now.
I have a few alts I spent a couple weeks on each gearing up, and a lot of them are around the 609-612 area, and I’ve been shifting them in and out of heroic pugs. I feel like because of that, I’m getting WAY more mileage out of the game. Real talk, I was worried I was going to get bored of this patch WAY too early because 8 bosses doesn’t seem like a whole lot to work with, but right now, I can do Heroic NP on my paladin, my evoker, AND my warrior in the same week, and I REALLY love having that sort of flexibility.
Okay, I can see where you’re coming from a LOT better now. If you only play one form of content due to limited time, I can get how that can feel like gearing would feel worse, especially if you just enjoy raid logging. Frankly that was the reason 9.0 lost me - Shadowlands was miserable if you only raid logged.
That said, I kind of still have to disagree with you a little bit. Sort of. If you feel raids aren’t rewarding enough, I think there should be some safety nets to offer boosts to loot (Frankly I hate RNG for gearing because I’ve gone 12 weeks in a tier being denied a trinket and that actually was significant at the time - god damn Draught of Souls will haunt me till I die).
I love raiding in this game, but sometimes I get bored of it and want to continue progressing my character through another avenue. Delves and M+ being alternative angles has made this game WAY more fun for me, and I’d hate for it to change.
I feel like there’s room for all forms of PVE to feel rewarding no matter which form of it is your preference, you know what I mean? More freedom to chase HOW your character becomes badass. 
4 Likes
A dopamine hit? What? Uh, are you sure you don’t just have a slight gambling addiction or something?
I literally feel nothing when I get a gear upgrade, just “cool an upgrade” or something and that’s about it. Maybe excitement if it’s a BiS like a trinket or something but that’s about it. No dopamine whatsoever. Are you okay?
1 Like
Nah, he’s got a point. It might sound weird and maybe even a little pedantic, but there’s been some research done on MMOs and other games talking about their addictive nature and how they keep players playing. Like specifically the psychology behind it. You can see a lot of similar research trends done on mobile games even.
It’s actually kind of fascinating the sort of tactics designers can use to keep players playing their game. Fascinating or depressing, depending on your point of view.
7 Likes
You’re probably not running tier 11 delves without hero gear and you’re definitely not doing Let Me Solo Him without it.
Unless you abused scaling bugs when those were available.
They’d probably feel pretty easy when you don’t run them.
If you play the right classes / specs, take the time to complete meta WQ’s for those max level chests and a few other things you’re going to have a near-full set of 584 gear as soon as you hit max level. Especially if you just spend your delve coins on the gear chest. And tier 8 only expects ~600 item level.
M+ People are an odd breed where they’re painfully aware that their system exists at the expense of actual challenging content like Mythic raiding so they react violently and irrationally when they perceive Delves as doing the same to them, even though the explicit point of Delves is to be an independent pillar.
So, what M+ did to Mythic raiding is fine but when the shoe’s on the other foot, now it’s a problem because you’re entitled to people’s time but only in the oddly specific circumstance where they are running dungeons but not raids.
Also, your achievements are public, you don’t run delves so I imagine they’d look pretty easy when you don’t do them.
No they weren’t. You were locked to Tier 3 delves (Tier 4?) which meant that you didn’t get better than 584 gear. Bountiful delves weren’t active either.
People seemingly dislike running M+ without being showered in gear.
Ew, no. Go run M+ if you want time trials.
15 Likes