Two unrelates things.
Enjoyable content can be enjoyable content with absolutely zero rewards.
Nerfing the rewards doesnt change the content in any way.
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I don’t know why you feel it’s crazy. They’ve provided a massive number of catchup mechanisms for alts this expansion. Between a bank full of warbound gear, renown gear, undercoin gear, crafted gear, Timewalking events, the Anniversary event and crest discounts, there isn’t any reason a new alt shouldn’t be 590-600 immediately after hitting 80.
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Idk but it’s pretty funny, before the interview it was nothing but talks of “How to fix/solve/revamp M+” topics. 
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1 hero slot from raid story mode
3 hero slots from rep
3ish slots from crafting
Thats half the slots covered without even having to do group content, or step foot into delves. Not to mention whatever maps you get. If youre strictly doing delves youve got a pretty good shot of getting 1-2 a week
7-8 weeks to be decked out in Hero from nothing but delves
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I agree! Zero rewards for M+ players - just have fun doing your M+ content…for the enjoyment of it!
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Yeah. Rewards stop in m+ and the difficulty and keys continue on and people still playing in those difficulties.
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I read somewhere that PvP gear is scaled differently in dungeons and raids so it doesn’t have this problem. Whether or not that’s true, couldn’t they do something like this? Just nurf the delve gear in M+ and nurf the M+ gear in delves. Problem solved.
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This doesn’t really bother me either tbh. 7-8 weeks is a lot longer than someone who’s doing group content, so I think that’s a fair trade off.
I think it took me like a 2 to 3 weeks to get up into the 610s and I play pretty casually with my approach to doing higher end content. If it took me 7-8 weeks to get to that point, I’d say that’s way too slow of a gearing method for me, so it doesn’t really ‘hurt’ anyone.
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I’m sorry, why are people you will never play with getting decent rewards affecting you somehow then? What’s your issue?
Unless you don’t like that people who are doing keys with you got gear from doing delves for some reason?
Like can anyone actually give a single reason how people getting decent gear in delves has negatively affected their ability to do M+? Is anyone actually having trouble finding people to do keys with because delves exist? Really?
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It’s crazy because they made a whole progression system and almost immediately rendered 90% of it irrelevant.
I’ve been able to jump right to T8 from the start of the season even without using most of the catchup stuff you’re talking about. You just buy some crafted greens and you’re pretty much good to go on most classes.
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Correction - anyone doing M+8 or higher has overtaken them now.
Anything below that (including normal and to some extent Heroic raid) is awful in comparison to Delves for generic gearing.
Both Delve and M+7 or below gear caps at 619 if the player isn’t also farming M+8 or Mythic Raid.
You literally get KSM before you complete all +7s. That should not be effectively the starting line for M+, but it is right now because of Delves. Really +8 is, tbh.
I understand that the complaints aren’t coming from delve players.
That’s a given.
People don’t complain when their chosen content is OP. Because it’s to their advantage.
Sometimes it just makes more sense to nerf something than to buff or change everything else.
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Blizzard prefers to create friction between player demographics.
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Raiders have a harder time due to lockouts and once a week looting.
Seasons are 20-25 weeks long. IMO, it should be closer to the 15-16 range.
If im never going to play with, then why was it addressed by Ion about players from delves going into m+ ?
But regardless, nothing i said is tied to your accusations. I dont have an issue. Just pointing out a flaw in your line of thinking.
I play m+ because i enjoy the dungeon scene. Gear is a nice byproduct. You said the devs gave you an enjoyable piece of content and people are wanting to nerf it.
Actually, people are wanting to buff it to make it more difficult. Not nerf it. Also, rewards are not content. If you actually enjoyed the content (which rewards are not), the rewards would be a bonus and not the source of your enjoyment.
Absolutely.
- Delve gear is over rewarding for its difficulty.
- Players want to increase gear further, go into m+
- Gear being as good as it is, lets folks from delves ignore mechanics in m+ and still succeed.
- Until the gear no longer carries them and they cause groups to fail
Bad strawman. But the answe is no because thats not the problem lol
Putting champion gear as vault reward wouldnt nerf anything. Would slow down how fast people gear by a week or two, but not nerf as theyd still have the exact same ending ilvl
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With Delves I don’t have to deal with random kickings, tanks who think they are The Flash and rush as fast as possible, undergeard players who hope they are in a group that can carry them and all the problems keys bring to M+.
Why do I get the feeling, that trolls and griefers want to screw up delves, because some of us have found a way, to not have to deal with griefers and trolls anymore, and can just enjoy the game.
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It’s not a problem at all… shouldn’t ever have been considered a problem
That was a long-winded way to say that it doesn’t affect you in the least.
You just hate the idea of other players getting comparable gear without putting time into the beyond-toxic M+ system - a system that I refuse to use. The abuse is intolerable.
So, if they give into the incessant whining of the M+ crowd, and nerf solo content yet again there won’t be much reason for many of us to stay.
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This, all of this right here.
Let us enjoy the game. Gear has little value after each patch/expansion. who cares? Let different people who enjoy different content enjoy the game and make it feel rewarding. M+ pugs are a toxic hellhole almost as bad as pvp. Delves provide a great way for others who dont want to deal with that and feel like you’re getting something done.
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You mean, “Sorry, not sorry. It sucks to be you, but you have no choice but to continue playing exactly as my Lord and Master wants you to play, and continue paying for the development of my content, because they’re not giving you any choice.”
That’s not how entertainment works.
It’s a “problem” because the series of experiments had an unexpected result. They thought for sure that delves would funnel everyone who got that gear into mythic+ so they could get the crests they needed to upgrade it. There were too many players moving directly from normal dungeons into heroics, and not enough players in delves. So they had to raise the minimum ilvl to do heroic dungeons so they could get a participation spike to report to Microsoft to justify the resources spent on its development.
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I just don’t see what the difference for a delve only player is between a 3/6 hero track item and a 7/8 champ track item is. They’re both 616, they both take 1 upgrade to reach 619, and if you’re only doing delves you’re not getting gilded crests at a rate where upgrading hero track items makes sense and once you are from converting you’re better off just crafting 636s anyway, especially for weapon.
Imo it might make sense in that case to just make delve vault rewards higher levels of champion, instead of hero.
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I couldn’t care less what gear people get. Even more so if i could be guaranteed to never have to play with them. So thats not it. Youre just finding ways to project your hate for m+ and thats fine.
So youre saying you dont actually enjoy the the solo content?
Even if they slightly nerf the rewards, its still progression hand over fist more so than what it was in the past.
Mind you, they nerfed m+ rewards much more than the nerfs being asked for concerning delves, and there was no flood of “im quitting because now its pointless to do this content” threads
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