Sure but add in the unavoidable melee hits for 1M+ every ~2 seconds and then what you’re saying makes absolutely no sense.
I don’t know what dmg CoA does but I know the guy in the Dread pitt does an AOE for about 11M damage. I have (at 614) 5.1M hp. Brann’s pots heal for 1.6M, so 4.8M for all 3, and then about 900k every 3 sec. That MIGHT JUST EXACTLY equal the damage you take from his AOE. But then he’s going to melee you a few times for another 1-6M damage and you already used up all your pots. That’s fine, but you’re going to run out of cooldowns if you can’t burn him within X time. And that’s where gear comes into play. And that’s really the point. If you play it just right, you’ll survive, but only if you can kill him within a certain time period of your def cds running out. And I would suggest, even though I don’t really know how hard M+ is, that this is pretty darn hard, even with a smattering of hero gear.
Lol I tried it, and you can out range it. That can’t possibly be intended. It trivializes the encounter on any tier. Somebody should report that as a bug (I don’t know how) (no pun intended re: “bug”)
I mean, that’s most of them though. The only things I have seen that are truly unavoidable are the earthcrawl guy’s spells (you don’t have enough to interrupt them all) and Waxface’s/Kriegvald rest kobold’s fire aoes
For the earth crawl guy, you can’t avoid all his bolts, of course. They’re spammable. But on my mage,I can interrupt the shackles and dispel the curse.
But this this leaves out all the melee. On the dread pit guy, he does very little melee. And on my druid, without outranging the AOE, I have to use barkskin/ironbark and spam heal myself. This ensures that I’ll be in melee range of him shortly after he’s done casting… Which is dangerous for me. That’s why I say that out ranging it trivializes the encounter. It leaves virtually no room for him to do any damage. So this does not seem like the way the encounter was intended to operate.
Compare this with waxface, where the poison thing is trivial and the throw wax is basically just an annoyance. But I’m going to spend over 50% of my time eating melee hits to the face. I can spend some time in Bear form, which makes it easier, but it accomplishes nothing. I’ll have to spend some significant time in caster form (or cat to actually do any damage) and then I’ll be taking 1.5m hits and even bigger crits. And this is all fine. It’s supposed to be hard on t11. I’m just saying the difficulty of the dread pit guy, given you can outrange his AOE, doesn’t make much sense. I think it’s a bug.
I haven’t dealt with the toxicity in M+ since Shadowlands. I plan on keeping it that way. They could offer the best gear in the game and I still wouldn’t touch them.
Did…did griz seriously just assert that content can “be enjoyable without rewards?”… Is there even a single example of that in wow outside of maybe RP for the sake of RP?
This really isn’t it, at least not for all of us. It’s the impact delve gear has on other parts of the game. I wouldn’t care one iota if delve gear was equivalent of 900 item level if it only added power in the overworld and delves.
But I guess this is the standard fare for debates in 2024. Why argue what the other side actually says when you can just make up an absurd accusation of their motivation and straw man that instead…
Every key run above where rewards stop but clearly below where title begins fits this criteria. Obviously a lot of people are content to only push as high as the tangible rewards, but there are clear examples of folks who do go higher that have no shot to reach the next actual reward.
Isn’t that just people running because they are competing on the ladder? There’s a whole host of people who do that. The reward is beating the competition which is a reward in and of itself.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m sure there are people doing it because they enjoy it in and of itself too. But they’re the extreme minority. The other 95% of the playerbase is doing it for the cosmetics, achievements, to rolfstomp their enemies in pvp, the ilvl, the meta web ladders that extend beyond the in-game rewards etc. There’s really not very much at all that people will do in wow if there isn’t some form of carrot attached to it either offered by blizz or player generated.
Would argue that at least the first half of heroic raid is easier than T11s. Should not need that level of difficulty thrown at you in order to get a single hero vault weekly. Disagree entirely.
Raid has better gear, tier, and provides comparable or better ilvl on vault.
And you should not need to be 616 to comfortably take stabs at one 616 vault option.
I could see it on T9s or maybe even 10s but asking for them to be pushed back to T11s is essentially saying you need to do heroic raiding in order to do delves.
There are many reasons, trying to boil it down is just asking for trouble. There certainly are people who take pride in knowing they were in the top 5% or the top 2,000, even if those won’t reach the title. But there are also people who won’t even look up where they finish this season relative to others, they just pushed some of their keys to +14 because they enjoy the challenge of it.
I don’t know about extreme minority, but definitely a minority. I’m not stating otherwise. It’s just in order for anyone to do it, that means the content can be enjoyable without rewards, which was the measuring stick you put forward. I was never trying to claim that vast swaths of the community will run content without rewards attached, merely that the presence of some who do indicates that it’s possible for content to attract people for non-reward reasons.
Not really. I was responding the idea that it’s fine to nerf rewards for a large swathe of content because of the niche idea of “it doesn’t matter because there are people who will enjoy it for enjoyments sake”. Which is a heavily disingenuous argument to make when you consider that the fact that no, the vast majority who play wow simply do not operate that way.
You’re gonna be hard pressed to convince the common wow player to partake in some new form of content that offers zero carrot, cosmetic or otherwise. That’s just the reality.
That fraction of a fraction probably wouldn’t have even gone to 10s if there were zero rewards to begin with. That this fraction of a fraction will push 4 more key levels after rewards stop is not an indication that a significant number of people enjoy it for enjoyment’s sake.
It’s so funny to see your repeated and utter inability to grasp the concept of people caring about the health of the game overall, and what is correct, and what is good design. You literally cannot comprehend anyone supporting something that doesn’t very, very directly benefit them.
M+ rewards have been nerfed multiple times. It was nerfed again coming into TWW and I agreed with it. Not to mention M+ continues on past reward levels and people play that range consistently. It’s not like i’m making a hypocritical stand.
