I don’t like even to talk about that dude. Dude is a double sided coin, and tries to slide into BLizz a$% like in jukebox.
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Exactly
Yet you have ppl who are like “oh he went unscripted” lmfao, no. No he didnt. Ion doesnt touch anything unless its been filtered through 10 editors at least.
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100% right
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This would’ve been cool too, just feels like alot of hunters “choices” boil down to aoe or single target, not actual build variety as is
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Id say it would satisfy everyone aswell, but lets be real lol. WoW players will never be happy no matter what is givin to them
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LMFAO WHY ARE YOU HERE LYING? Bruh I have literally almost 2 years of quotes from you that can discredit that bs statement in a sec. You are the biggest clown here out of all the forums I have seen and the absolute worst part is people actually think you are correct. JFC lmfaoooo
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Preach is usually not a white knighter. He does tend to give Blizzard the benefit of the dobut but he will also be sharp in his criticism when he needs to be. In fact he quit the game for about a year because of bad decision making by the developers (the straw that broke the camel’s back was domination shards).
An example of this is actually his opinion on Survival. He was a big fan of ranged Survival and really doesn’t like melee Survival. However he was willing to give melee Survival a chance. He did in Legion but found it to be terrible (he called it, among other things, a “hodgepodge of dogsh!t” and people who liked Legion SV never really forgave him for that. He gave BFA SV a chance and found it to be decently fun. However he’s also gone on record saying he doesn’t understand why they made SV melee and wishes ranged SV existed as a playable option.
I started off hating Preach because one of his first videos was an absurd take about how WoW is dying because raiding is too accessible, and not only was it a plainly bad take but the video had serious factual mistakes and omissions about which someone with his experience should know better. But over time he matured and his WoW takes were generally pretty good. I think out of the WoW Youtube space he has the most valuable impact and influence on Blizzard.
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He and that other kid called pyromancers are tow guys I started to dislike because the reason they are quitting the game. Allegations between employees in accompany should not be of interest of its consumer, unless consumer it’s directly affected. Not a single players was affected by sexual allegation, neither could they do anything. There is a court for it and legal process. But Preach and Pyromancer took it to the whole new level with it.
But they wanted to grab audience when FF14 started be #1 MMO, and now when the dust is settled, new expansion with “allot of promises” is coming out so they want to grab viewers.
Any streamer who cried that they are quitting about sexual allegation, or any player who got upset about it needs to sit down and rethink his life choices as much as possible.
But when it comes to game design yea he is right because he just copy pasted every single concern that every other streamer said about game.
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Multistrike didn’t even make SV particularly OP. The design of WoD SV just made it very dependent on Multistrike to compete with everything else.
In particular it was because Serpent Sting wasn’t a separate ability in WoD. It was applied by Arcane Shot. So when you Arcane Shot it would apply Serpent Sting which would do an initial tick. The initial tick was originally added in Cataclysm as a talent (Improved Serpent Sting) and they made it a baseline part of the ability (passive) in WoD. So when you Arcane Shot you got a little more damage immediately out of Serpent Sting’s initial tick. If the Arcane Shot multistriked the clone would also apply a Serpent Sting and do an initial tick. And this Serpent Sting application could itself multistrike for more initial tick damage. So Multistrike was of very high value to SV; almost as much as Agility itself. SV wouldn’t be OP, though; in BRF BM was already a lot better due to a favourable tier bonus.
Blizzard responded to this by removing the initial tick of Serpent Sting. I can’t stress how insane this change was. It utterly gutted the spec. It essentially removed the spec’s ability to AoE and amounted to something like a 20% single target nerf. This was right when SV was starting to struggle v.s. the other specs and it was in for a really bad time in Hellfire Citadel regardless. They removed Rapid Fire from the spec in WoD and gave it NO unique spec CD (after promising one in the beta) so with the legendary ring that heavily prioritised 2 minute CDs SV was already screwed, then this happned. What’s worse is a ton of players just assumed the initial tick of Serpent Sting was a bug and that’s why it was removed (I don’t know or remember if Blizzard themselves argued this) even though it had been an explicit intneded addition since Cataclysm.
I have no doubt in my mind that SV was in maintenance mode because the decision to make it melee had already been made before WoD released, and Blizzard were quite happy to gut it because they saw a lot of people were still playing it and they didn’t want people to stay attached.
No, this absolutely isn’t true. Company ethics is something that matters a great deal to consumers so information about it is important. People boycott companies all the time over ethical lapses.
Plus, if you watch Preach’s quitting video, while the abuse allegations were part of it, what sealed the deal for him (and many others) back then was the atrocious state of the game. Preach realised he needed to quit when he learned that the developers genuinely didn’t understand why domination shards weren’t well-received by the playerbase.
Yet you’re saying I’m the one solely at fault for perpetuating it.
You could just go away, you know.
P.S. I’m skipping most of these, particularly the “More insults” because I don’t care and “You didn’t link the evidence” because I did and it’s pathetic to still be trying to make that a thing. You seem to have a habit of individually quoting every sentence and giving a surface-level one-liner reply, and you repeat yourself a lot.
It’s not just the Hunter forums. WCL is the universal standard when it comes to discussing anything raid-related. If I’m talking about raid representation it’s obviously from WCL. That goes for any class. If you look at class discussions on other forums, their discords, reddit etc they all assume reliance on WCL and often don’t explicitly link because everyone knows where it is. You don’t know this because you’re uninformed. That’s not an insult: that’s a factual statement. You don’t know about these sorts of discussions so you’re making judgements that rely on your lack of knowledge about them.
I’m not going to continue discussing this whole source argument with you. It’s common knowledge + it’s been linked. Move on.
No it doesn’t because real data trumps supposed experience every time. You don’t even have any exact counts. You’re basing this argument entirely on your own recollection. So we not only have to depend on you being honest about your recollection (I have zero reason to believe you care about honesty; in fact I’m inclined to believe the opposite) but also accurate, and even then it’s entirely dependent on your own experience in the game which is evidently extremely limited. So it’s less than useless.
Plus, if we are talking about experience, that goes both way: In my experience I hardly ever see SV Hunters and usually when I do it’s evidently an underplayed levelling alt. I go on about the epic BG argument because it’s casual content and SV Hunters insist it’s a great BG spec; I do a lot of epic BGs (or did, I haven’t in a while because I largely stopped playing retail a couple months ago). I always look at the count of Hunters in the BG and check which ones are Survival. I’d estimate it’s 5% or less. It’s routine to see 10-15 Hunters with 0-1 being Survival. The highest amount of SV Hunters I’ve ever seen in one BG is 4 out of 20 Hunters; and that was last season where they tuned SV’s damage way up with the tier set. Most of the time there are none.
Not just BGs but also achievements from rated PvP. You have few. Plus the armoury tells us exactly how many BGs you’ve done: again you don’t have many.
I don’t fault people for playing casually. I now play casually. I fault people for playing casually and then pretending their experience is much less limited than it actually is.
I have 0 respect and tolerance for people using ignorance as a platform. Part of being intellectually honest is admitting when you don’t know something and seeking to find out. To show up and make arguments/assertions that depend on lack of knowledge is dishonest. It’s an extension of the Dunning Kreuger effect. Look it up. Or is telling you to look up common knowledge still not allowed?
The difference is my experience aligns with factual data.
You know in early Shadowlands before Blizzard heavily restricted the API we had wowranks which counted class/spec populations by trawling the armoury. It was a LOT more than just raiding. Again SV came up as the least popular spec. I understand that was over a year ago and things change but the fact is we had visibility into what people were playing across the whole game and SV’s representation closely matched what we see in raiding, even normal/heroic.
Every class has a portion of dedicated players that raid/m+ and casual players that don’t. To explain away SV’s unpopularity by saying “but there are casual players!” effectively argues that there’s an abnormally huge amount of casual-only players that never step foot in any trackable content just for SV; moreso than any other spec. That doesn’t make sense.
Knowing the front page of WCL is not an encyclopaedic knowledge. You don’t even have to know it off by heart. You can just go to the website and look at the latest raid statistics. This is what people do when discussing tuning and representation.
They really aren’t. Other classes have individually bad specs but Hunters have MM, SV, and even the baseline class tree being poorly designed. It’s really only BM that’s any good and even it has its issues.
What does that have to do with the quality of his WoW takes?
What about the people who enjoyed ranged SV? There were a lot more of them, you know. I find it insulting that their enjoyment was considered expendable and secondary in importance to that of melee mains. Ever think of that?
This would be ideal.
Well most of them talk so much about how they like SV being 80% ranged so it’s not so much a stretch to say they won’t be too bothered by bringing that number to 100%.
I say that it’s less of a dealbreaker because going from ranged to melee is an objective loss of capability while going from melee to ranged is an objective gain of capability. If I can do my whole rotation from 30 yards one day but then the next day I can’t, that’s a nerf. The other way around is a buff. This is the objective reality; NOT someone’s aesthetic/thematic preference for melee or ranged.
Everyone who plays SV has a reason for playing it. That reason isn’t going to be melee for 100% of the cases, and even in many of those cases where melee is a reason it’s not going to be a dealbreaker. If they made SV ranged, not only would more people be willing to play the spec, but many of those who currently play the spec would still play it. They could even keep some elements that make sense like Wildfire Bomb. Yes some would quit, but it would be a hell of a lot less than those that quit when they got rid of ranged SV.
I know there’s aesthetic value to actually using a melee weapon, but the point is you would have to REALLY like melee combat for that to be a selling point. For most Hunters it isn’t, so it goes back to an argument of capability. I hear often that SV is “versatile” for being melee but that doesn’t make sense. Other Hunter specs can fight in melee. So we aren’t gaining a strength or capability. We’re just getting a new aesthetic/thematic melee option, which would be fine if it didn’t remove an existing ranged option.
This is why I advocate for melee Hunters to be represented by a talent within BM i.e. BM is ranged baseline but you can choose to be melee via talent in exchange for a damage boost. That way no Hunter loses a ranged option and the melee lovers still have an option. It’s simply too niche an idea to occupy an entire 3rd of one of the most popular classes; especially when that 3rd was already occupied.
Well the hard fact is that there were many more people that preferred ranged SV so objectively it would not be as bad to prefer them over the small niche that wants SV to remain melee.
Then there’s the matter of committment. Most of those people who played and enjoyed ranged SV were more likely to be Hunter mains while with melee SV they’re more likely to be people coming from other classes like you. So it would be a lot less impactful to their enjoyment of the game if SV changed.
Finally, like I said before, you could just have a talented melee option within BM then you would still have an option to be melee. It would make more sense too because any melee Hunter fantasy depends on the pet and we already have a pet spec. Right now the pet aspects are awkwardly copied between BM and SV which goes against their entire reasoning for making SV melee in the first place. If it was all in BM it would be no problem.
Yes, this wouldn’t be ideal, but that’s how compromise works. 99% of the time I see suggested “compromises” for melee SV fans and ranged SV fans it reads like “melee SV fans keep everything they want and give up absolutely nothing, ranged SV fans get given an awkward and messy set-up with the MM tree”. That’s not compromise, and it makes zero sense to so heavily favour the much smaller group.
It literally is. The game already has more than enough melee. It never made sense to take away one of three ranged weapon specs to add a 13th melee weapon spec. Hunters are the only class in the game that uses ranged weapons. It’s the most iconic and central part of the class. We did not need and largely did not want a melee option especially at the expense of an existing ranged spec.
Sounds like you just want Arms Warrior with a pet. Wildfire Bomb is the one actually interesting and unique thing SV has. The pet stuff is already covered by BM. The physical melee stuff is already covered by the already crowded pool of physical melee specs. Special munitions is the unique element. Funnily enough it’s what ranged SV focused on.
This is the only “more insults” part I’ll respond to because I thought it was funny. This must be a very American way of thinking. “Insulting the thing I like = insulting me”.
Yes so why should they submit to losing one of their options just so melee players could have a new alt?
Really with the nostalgia argument? WotLK classic is right there and about 80% of the class is playing SV. That’s with a similar relative tuning position v.s. the rest of the class that melee SV has right now in 10.0.
Ideally people like you wouldn’t play Hunter. This is a big part of why making SV melee and thus chasing a different audience was a bad idea. It invited people to the class whose interests are fundamentally not aligned with those of regular Hunter mains. This is why so often we see melee SV fans calling for nerfs or negative changes to Hunters they supposedly play.
Photonfervor, an ardent defender of melee SV and another person who exclusively posts from a melee main yet insists they main SV, just showed up in our feedback thread the other day to demand that Aimed Shot should be an interruptible cast. Taigertraps, melee SV main, has demanded several times for mobility restrictions on BM. All the time we get SV Hunters demanding exotic pets to no longer be exclusive to BM (in fact someone just posted on the wow reddit about this today). People like this are an extremely negative influence on Hunter class design and if they wouldn’t be here that would be ideal.
And it’s been infamously dysfunctional for those entire 6 years.
Just curious: do you think ranged SV was ever this controversial/contested for its 10+ years?
Yet a lot of people would have never quit the class.
You know some people quit the game entirely over it? I know some of them personally. It also includes some Hunter forum regulars like Guillotaur and Lazyguide.
Prove it.
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More people want ranged survival than want melee. Doesn’t seem like what people want matters. Outlaw is everything you want survival to be, and way more fun. Just give it a shot.
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LOL
Im sure it was because of the law suit and he knew it would hurt his brand so when a new expansion is announced, suddenly its okay to come crawling back
Oh here we go.
He loved the hunter class sooooo much he never made a legacy of the hunter video in all the years he was doing those.
Probably because the normal every day player knows better than to base their own ideas and thoughts about the game around their own fun and joy, not from some malding youtuber crybaby
Imagine a guy who doesnt play the spec or class for that matter, upset over the class design. Just terrible.
QQ LFR IS HARD. Yeah I remember seeing that video aswell, But he always has bad takes so /shrug
Oh so he grew up into his 40s
LOL no
The same people who got upset over this are tweeting off Iphones, (we all know where those come from) openly shop at walmart, and like to silence people after hearing one side of the story. In other words, morons.
leeches
My life was not affected by anything that happened at blizzard (allegedly) and I live in Irvine.
He quit when it was convenient to help his brand.
You literally only see that said here. If they didnt want to play melee hunter, you would never see the hoard of them in any form of gameplay. I said it yesterday, you literally see more survival hunters out there than MM players.
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That’s true but why don’t we boycott companies that produce micro chips? Kids work their back off in mines so high tech companies can make chips. Yea if they would hire professionals you regular PC would cost $10K not $3k
But blizzard allegations started serious but then it became train fest. Yea I didn’t like them either, who did? But I either played wow less or focused on something else. But like every other streamer they can’t do anything besides the games. No wonder they get frustrated
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you know, not to interrupt the tl;dr chronic last word-itis bickering going on between bepples and sokyra, but i thought it was interesting the point about estimating population size: wcl does favour pve players specifically and i know there’s a few casuals who don’t do any group content at all as well as pvp-only players who famously scorn raids and m+ as ezmode.
i trained as a biologist originally, from a long line of botanists, and my earliest memory was helping my mum with quadrats to calculate % plant coverage in a given area. i’ve also had a lot of time on my hands the last two weeks while i farm the buffed panda world bosses for mounts (2 down, 3 to go!) and since i’d already been curious about sv numbers without the tier set, and was surrounded by a vast number of other players ranging from gladiators to keystone champs to forgotten alts that changed every 15 minutes every time the boss died, i decided to do some information gathering on my own. i counted 100 hunters per “quadrat”, checked the specs, and these are the results:
First 100 hunters (prior to the mm and sv buffs), ranging from levels 41-60 waiting for Rukhmar, WM off, realms sampled chiefly Stormrage, Area 52, Tichondrius, Wyrmrest and Proudmoore):
78 beastmaster, 21 marksman, 1 survival
Second 100 hunters (after mm and sv buffs), same levels + realms, wm off:
65 beastmaster, 33 marksman, 2 survival
I decided at this point to change it up and turn WM on, but then absolutely nobody was out killing the world bosses (I had to chase Rukhmar around the spires of arakh myself!) so I booted up a 2nd account, picked a decent sized horde realm with a historical pvp bend that i happened to have an alt on, and parked myself outside the org gates to count the trickle of duelling players. these numbers are mostly horde with the exception of a nelf mm hunter who hung around for like 20 minutes watching the horde and then ambushed my level 50 alt with a single aimed shot, gg, i’m not bitter you’re bitter etc.)
Third 100 hunters (warmode on, outside gates of orgrimmar on Tichondrius, almost all level 60):
64 beastmaster, 32 marksman, 4 survival
worth noting: all but 1 of the sv players were max level, and all of them had higher honor levels (the player i spotted in the first quadrat had an honor level of 1,400+, the lowest was honor level 122). the mm hunters were a surprisingly even split of lvl 60s and pre-60 alts, and the bm hunters were a grab bag.
i recommend doing your own, the world bosses are jumpin and this was more entertaining than hanging around watching netflix waiting on the WorldBossTimers addon to pop. Ideally I’ll revisit these spots throughout expansion patches and see how the counts change at level 70 and once tier sets become available to track population growth, because i am a Massive Nerd ™.
If you do your own, do share, I love a citizen scientist programme. <3
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You know there’s data that tells you you’re full of it right? Melee hunters are 5% of hunters in retail, while ranged SV over on classic is the vast majority.
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go level a character in dungeons from 10-60 and record it. I wanna see how many non survival hunters you will come across in that journey. If its not BM, its going to be survival.
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I don’t need anecdotes, dummy. I can just check the number of parses logged in warcraftlogs for each spec. guess what? Survival has the smallest number of every class and spec for the last raid tier.
BY A LOT.
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Not what I asked
Alright, I did it. I saw only beastmasters and MM. 0 surv babies.
That a good enough answer for your stupid irrelevant question?
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I’m sure
I asked a question?
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Classic is different. And SV in classic is for the majority of time better than MM. you will notice decline in SV hunters towards the end of expansion when MM takes over. Class popularity is determined by performance>then design.
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