Clearly you’ve not spoken to all of them. Sure ranged survival may have been fun in its time, but im alright with it being changed around to what it is now. Sure, many people who play hunter always liked the ranged aspect, well, thankfully they still got two different specs to enjoy that on. Might seem like circular reasoning to you, but that doesn’t invalidate the “few” of us who do enjoy it so much we’ve made it our main.
Like I said in another thread, you’re not the high authority on hunters, you’re just a player same as all of us, regardless of your claims. Feel free to enjoy ranged survival on classic! Meanwhile I am gonna keep enjoying melee survival hunter because people’s opinions don’t pay my subscription to this game or my enjoyment from this spec/class.
I literally see more Survival players than MM players in dungeons, lfr, pvp, mythic plus, etc. Also you dont and will never speak for the playerbase no matter how much you think you do.
If I was a new player and seen you as a focus for ranged gameplay, I would still continue to avoid playing it.
I could make a thread about hunter pets and you would somehow find a way to derail it to being about how much you hate MSV so, yes they do.
LOL no
There is only like 2 million of us left and you just look at raid logs nothing further. Meanwhile the greatest hunter player in the game is ironically enough Survival and I know that burns you deeply.
You speak in an echo chamber, anyone dealing with you long enough knows this.
Again You will pretty much never encounter someone in game whining about the spec like you think they all do.
You conversate with lvl 10 alts on the forums, or people logged into their warrior alts.
I have spoke to hunters who love the spec and you desperately try and shut them down because its against your narrative. You are basically The Young Turks of the hunter class.
Because all of the player played that spec in one patch from 7 years ago
You said otherwise like 2 weeks ago. Again, flip flop Magikarp
You have zero idea how the spec even plays considering most of the time, we dont even stay in melee. Just grow up already little dude and put the legos away. Its almost 2023 and Santa isnt going to give you MM 2.0
because it’s a ridiculous proposition in the first place, you’re arguing “well it feels bad to play to me personally…” so there’s not much room for discussion about that, if you don’t like it then you don’t like it. and then it turns into “x amount of people dont like melee hunter” well how many, bepples? “numerous.” there is no good discourse that can come about this besides endless mudslinging back and forth. it’s tiring. it’s tedious. i and the other people who enjoy sv obviously enjoy hunters and also enjoy playing melee. the only alternative is unholy dk and unholy is…uh…it sure is something
I agree and confirm all of that as well. Ive seen quite a lot more suvival hunters around then MM. Lots of BM too, but way more survival than some nay-sayers might think.
If you feel angry that you have people calling for your favourite spec to be changed, just remember that many people lost their favourite spec (and, in some cases, most of their enjoyment with the game; I know people who quit over it) just so your new favourite could be made.
They’re not the same. This does not make it fine, especially when most DPS specs in the game are melee so melee players already have plenty of options. If you like ranged weapons Hunters are the ONLY option, so it was never a good idea to take that away for yet another melee.
No, it’s not just circular reasoning to me. It’s objectively circular reasoning. “The spec feels good to play for those who enjoy it” is a circular and therefore meaningless statement. It fails to address the fact that the spec is broadly unenjoyable. Most people avoid it.
There are also many pressing criticisms from people who like the idea of melee SV because, to be frank, the DF design sucks. It’s tree choices are uninteresting, the layout is nonsensical, and the resulting playstyle is dull and repetitive. Even ignoring the melee flaw. 60% of the time you spend in the rotation will be Mongoose Bite and its window mechanic, and most of the rest will be Kill Command + resets. The one fun and unique ability, Wildfire Bomb, is taking a backseat this time. 6 years and this is the best they could come up with. Shameful.
Maybe it can be fun for people who’s PvP experience looks like this, but most people who have spent any amount of time with the spec are giving it poor reviews.
We saw this same dynamic play out in Legion; a terrible playstyle with no real overarching vision becoming avoided by most Hunters and requiring more heavy reworking, despite a fringe niche of players swearing up and down that it’s God’s gift to WoW. Hell, those people are still here to this day insisting everything was fine and good even after the iteration so obviously failed that they had to discard it immediately.
Well one version of SV (Ranged) clearly worked, and it worked well. People liked it. You didn’t get these massive arguments springing up on the forums all the time nor did you get endless pressure for more and more reworking, because the spec wasn’t dysfunctional like melee SV.
But you can still go enjoy melee SV if you want. You don’t need to spend time here justifying it if my comments don’t matter to you. Go in game and play it… to whatever extent, because TBQH it doesn’t look like you even play that character very much at all.
No, that’s not my argument. The spec has been reviewed poorly by many people. Here’s Marcelian’s video on it, and remember these people usually like melee SV a lot:
In a game with hundreds of thousands of players any spec, no matter how niche the concept or how poor the design/execution, will see some level of support. The existence of people that like Survival doesn’t excuse Survival from scrutiny. If we say that it does then we have to back to the fact that way more people played and enjoyed ranged Survival.
This isn’t a “live and let live” situation. They replaced one spec with another so the onus on Blizzard is to prove that was a good decision. So far they haven’t and it’s been a long time now. At this point it’s just turned out to be an enormous waste of time and resources on something not a whole lot of people like. When they could have done literally nothing at all and achieved a better result something went badly wrong along the way.
It’s not just a handful of forum posters and youtubers. You should get out of your bubble more.
This is the exact same way people acted during Legion, BTW. Denial, denial, and more denial about the obvious failure of that Survival iteration while the spec got negative reviews left and right, people largely abandoned it, and it ultimately had to be remade in the very next expansion. My advice: if you like the current iteration, don’t get too attached.
Yes, like I said, there are people that will still enjoy the spec or at least defend it. Probably proportionally more of them in the types of people that actively seek out Survival Hunter spec discussion. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s generaly a poorly-received and mostly-abandoned spec.
Yes Marcelian likes melee Survival a lot. I said this in my post and that’s why I picked it. Because if Marcelian is saying it’s bad, it’s really bad. He tends to be very lenient and supportive of SV.
As for people who don’t like melee SV, check this one out:
You mean MoP SV, it was WoD where SV took the hit that made it near unplayable with the new stat “Multistrike” that would have made our Serpent Sting, Serpent Spread, Black Arrow and Explosve Shot near Godlike. Two problems, one not a lot of gear had this stat, or had it in minuscule amounts, the other is on the gear that had it was cloth gear staves and the like and Warlocks went bonkers with it. How many times have we heard that.
But that’s okay in WoD I thought, played hunter for three expansions, need a change of pace, my Arms Warrior can take center stage and…
Yhea, my two favorite specs killed in one single patch. I did not want to heal again. Guild mostly fell apart and the garrison money machine got old. So BM it was.
Now to see how MM as Ranged SV works. Can SV be used as a mid range spec? At least I got into tanking cause I wanted that Bear skin for guardians. Almost quit the game, then Ion showed off that Bear. And here I am.
It takes two to have an argument. I’m responding to you responding. Round and round it goes.
AFTER you got called out on not doing so.
Your assumption of hive minding echo chamber doesn’t help your stance like you think, you made the faux pas, own up to it.
You’re doing the opposite of that I’d say, all this has been is confrontation and conflict.
You did at first, and got called on it. Move on.
AFTER you got called on it.
It absolutely does, you’re just trying to save face.
More insults, kay.
That is an assumption you are having and demanding, you have receipts you provide, not assume everyone is a mind reader.
AFTER you were called on it.
More insults and you claiming a moral superiority just because, kay.
I said it BEFORE you posted proof, you’re twisting yourself into knots to absolve yourself of any flaws and slip ups instead of just owning up to the fact that a huge swath of this argument would have been cut out if you had just done the reasonable thing and posted the receipts first or the first time you were asked for them rather than dragging it out.
Hilarious since that’s what you’ve been doing this entire time, you project and throw insults.
I’ve used personal play experience yes, I’ve never claimed otherwise, that you’re completely discrediting all play experience form people playing the game in favor of set logs does slant your argument you do realize that right?
Then no one is ever allowed to talk about anything ever then.
I played the game, apparently that doesn’t count for some reason (my preferred content in max level BFA was random BGs).
Kay, more insults and assumptive demands.
It’s not tone policing to call out your insults.
This is a lie.
Hilariously, another insult.
And again, there’s more content than just mythic raids, and that I played in SL without Survival as a main.
Random BGs don’t give out achievements usually. Also Randoms in SL sucked.
You absolutely are.
Right, I don’t mythic raid on Survival so I’m not allowed to speak at all. Got it.
I’ll take your word for it, I absolutely won’t call you a liar, but we do have differing experiences in this regard.
Which you have been doing.
You literally didn’t till you were called on it. “Everyone should have an encyclopedic knowledge of Warcraftlogs” is a ridiculous requirement you made up that means nothing.
They’re in a better state than a lot of classes due to the engagement with the Designer as opposed to Priest, Paladin, or Druid.
It was Dodge or Avoidance wasn’t it?
You don’t get to decide that though. Unless someone mains Hunter/Survival all the time they’re “uniformed/disengaged” by your standards, which is your own hangup.
More elitism and insults, kay.
More insults, kay.
Absolutely no one cares.
Maaaaaaybe don’t bring up the dood that got suspended/kicked out of a creator content summit for cheating in your praise?
A bias that is entirely a you issue, and says everything about your argument.
No he didn’t.
The constant repeating of that line made me raise a brow shrugs
Or because that’s what’s this whole conversation has been about more or less and your fervantness.
Aka you dismiss dissent as bias and emotional whereas your statements and insults are factual and unbiased and intellectually superior, riiiiiight.
An assumption you hold onto.
More lies and insults, they said they were having fun, not that everything is fine or no need for improvement.
That’s what you come across as, case in point:
You’re calling something people enjoy a “colossal waste of effort and potential”. That couldn’t be more biased and insulting.
Yeah, and that opinion is immediately invalidated.
So I’m other words, yes.
No we wouldn’t. I prefer melee, not casters. Getting rid of Survival I’d probably drop Hunter all together.
It absolutely is, your bias is heavily skewing your argument here.
They’re still ranged even if they get up close, it’s two very different play styles and feels.
And that resentment and frustration is understandable and valid, BUT that does not mean they can demand the same thing to happen now that the shoes on the other foot now as “payback/revenge/realigning”, Survival has been melee for 6 years. You don’t get to ignore and discredit all the people playing it since and enjoying it as melee just because.
Again, changing from ranged to melee when you preferred ranged sucks, just like changing from melee to ranged when you prefer melee would suck.
13 to 12 is not “most”.
Bruh.
This is not an objective statement.
This is what your entire stance boils down to and shows there’s not any reasoning or even point to any argument, you see Melee DPS as inherently “wrong”.
You mean like how most DPS have a main ability they want to use and builder/spenders?
I’m fine with it, I personally don’t care for “I throw bombs” as my main gimmick. if I wanted throwing explosions as my main thing I’d Play Fire or Demo.
More insults and discrediting based on bias, kay.
More insults, Kay.
People who prefer ranged did not play a new melee, shocker.
More bias and insults, kay.
Rose colored shades I’ll say. You loved ranged Survival, cool, sorry you lost your favourite spec. But I and other love melee Survival, I wouldn’t play a Hunter without it.
You get these massive arguments because there was a massive change, just as if they would have switched a melee spec to Ranged.
More insults, kay.
In all honestly I personally (cause this wasn’t directed to me) am just popping to check while eating, a failing of mine that I feel the need to respond rather than ignore others constantly.
More insults, kay.
No one cares.
The only one propping up this scenario is you. No one has claimed Survival is perfect. We enjoy it, we’re all for improvements, same as any other spec.
Well they haven’t changed it back in 6 years so…
More bias and insults, kay.
No, we would have just had another ranger spec. And a lot of people would never have picked up Hunter.
Could say the same to you, since that’s what you’re clinging to.
And more insults and bias, kay. Insulting something over and over doesn’t make you any more truthful.
Hate to break it to you but the same people who are saying surv is “good” are the same people on wowhead telling you “why you SHOULD play surv” are, guess what, the SAME people in the surv hunter discord telling you that surv is fine, dont trust the logs, follow THEIR guides, etc…
It boggles my god damn mind that marksman didn’t get black arrow and (OLD) explosive shot as a aimed shot replacer with this big talent tree.
Would’ve been like the perfect time to fulfill that old promise of old survival still existing without taking away a spec again
I guess I understood your post. I don’t like hunter discord at all. No matter how much people think and praise the creator of the community as amazing guide.
I was watching Bicemex play , and he is using talents that no one picks, saying they are good for burst damage. But in videos if he didn’t had other player to actually do something, his burst would be wasted every single time. That was back then when SL started. I mean kid is good don’t get me wrong but guides are really good for people who want to copy paste talents and play because some mythic first raider said its good.
I’m playing SV since legion, and since then SV saw only meta play in SL. It was always OK spec for M+, bad spec for raid and that’s it. And all because some Maximus, Preach or Method raiders have specific raid composition and 90% of wow community see that as 10 commandments.
Thats the unfortunate side affects to white knighters like preach who act like their doing good things but are only playing blizz’s hands to keep people playing bad specs.
