Delusional SV hunters

Classes Hunter
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Repeatedly trying to use your own lack of knowledge on what Warcraftlogs is as an argument is a creative approach at least. Really stupid, but creative. Kind of like making a melee Hunter spec.

I don’t care about your preferences beyond the fact that you’re clearly not a Hunter main and you don’t even know much about Hunters. Yet that doesn’t stop you from coming here and pretending you have anything of value to say.

Link the character.

And then I sent you a link to the Heroic logs.

I’m not here to handhold you through reading warcraftlogs. You can go for yourself and check the heroic, or even normal logs for all the previous tiers. There’s a consistent pattern of SV being an extremely unpopular spec going all the way back to becoming melee. The only exception is, again, Sepulcher and even then it’s still middle-of-the-pack at best. Every other tier it’s among last place. It’s the most consistently unpopular out of any spec.

I’m not going to list out every tier from Warcraftlogs for you. You will have to figure it out for yourself. That’s not me “stalling”. You came to this thread not having a clue where to see representation data while everyone else has been using that website for years. That’s on you for being uninformed.

This shouldn’t be news to anyone but given how uninformed on most things you’ve been so far I wouldn’t put it past you but here goes: every Hunter had melee abilities. They were baseline to the class, just as every Hunter had traps, ranged weapons, and pets. The intent was to make use of all of these tools where necessary, and the ranged toolkit was deliberately tuned high at a baseline level to ensure the Hunter was incentivised to stay at range and use ranged attacks as long as possible. That included Survival.

Cool story. Playstyle preferences are great because you can’t be wrong. You could genuinely enjoy a playstyle where you spammed nothing but a 5 second immobile cast to do all your DPS. You would be very lonely in that preference, but you wouldn’t be wrong. And that’s the case with Survival: you could genuinely enjoy the fact that the spec revolves around Mongoose Bite and Kill Command with little else but most normal people are going to find that gameplay to be degenerate and that’s a big part of why Survival is such a deeply unpopular spec.

The thread was literally created by someone who likes melee Survival. This isn’t just people who want Survival to be ranged. Much of Survival’s fanbase, which is small to begin with, is unhappy with it and asking for a rework.

Wow, what an observation: out of the hundreds of thousands of people who play this game, there are at least more than zero that enjoy Dragonflight SV! This is another stalling tactic of yours. No one has ever claimed that literally 0 people like DF SV. With a sufficiently large population you’ll find support for any position or any preference, even if it’s from just a handful of people. It’s literally impossible to get truly 0 support for anything. That’s why what we say is most people don’t like it. It’s not healthy for the design of this class or Hunters as a whole to devote an entire 3rd of it to something that’s so nonsense and so utterly replusive to most Hunters that it only gets played by a tiny niche. Especially as a replacement to something very popular.

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I’m trying to comprehend taking which spec you play this seriously. I play all 3 /shrug

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I’m trying to comprehend your sentence. Seriously. :wink:
Edit: I understand you’re trying to express a fairly complicated thought, but I 'm not sure how you generally say things to be confident I know what it is.

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You make a claim, you back it up, you don’t demand others do your work for you.

Do you have anything other than insults?

I mained in BFA, I play almost all the classes, just because I/others don’t play only 1 class doesn’t make our thoughts invalid.

I know enough, I’ve played All three specs, I have fun in all three specs in different situations, depending on my mood.

Pot, kettle, again you fail around with insults.

Sure?

That is not true.

Again, you provide the evidence for your own claims, not demand others work for you, learn to function.

Provide evidence of your claims, same and simple and basic for any discussion.

More insults, kay.

… from the Survival tree and spellbook yes, that’s what all those abilties were labeled under.

Exactly.

Luckily don’t have to sense this is false, those two are the main buttons, just like Overpower and Mortal Strike are the main buttons for Arms Warrior, but there is indeed more buttons.

And?

This falls under making stuff up to suit your own bias.

You keep using this word, I don’t think you know what it means honestly.

I’m disagreeing with you.

And I’d claim this is false, you have a small but very loud closed circle that complain constantly that it isn’t ranged anymore.

And again with you just being blatant with your bias and demonizing something you hate to make it look worse and your moral.

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Hello. I am really sorry you got off on the wrong foot with this guy. He wasn’t attacking you. You bought into this, when you first used this phrase:

You did this in response to being told where you could find proof to back up a statement.
Him not showing back-up to begin with, leaving it to you how to proceed, was deliberately done, it was an opportunity to drop it. Instead,

you called him out… to a debate.
Ad Hominem attacks will not win this, they are for the inept, and you are not that. Nor are you, as Illidan would say, prepared. So, letitgo.

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If you come to this thread and start making positive claims about SV’s representation I’m going to expect you to know a thing or two about SV’s representation. No, “I swear I see them in game” doesn’t count. Real data.

Whenever anyone in any WoW discussion is talking about representation Warcraftlogs is what’s on the mind. You didn’t know what that is so I told you. That’s that.

This “No really you were dodging the point” angle is not working for you. Especially when the data has now been linked.

Even most SV fans don’t try to pretend SV is secretly a popular spec. You’re mostly on your own here. Again I say “mostly” because I’ve seen a non-zero amount of people try to take that route, but I stress that it’s not something informed people argue.

Well considering you quote-responded to a whole bunch of different arguments of mine, evidently yes.

I hear from plenty of “Survival mains” who in reality just kept the class as a parked interest alt. I have a max-level Paladin and Priest, I don’t pretend to main those.

You think you know enough but that’s just the Dunning-Kreuger kicking in. You didn’t even know who Azortharion is, or what Warcraftlogs is.

It’s just truth. None of your posts have been of any value. Some times the truth is inconvenient but that doesn’t make it an insult.

Why am I not surprised that the character has literally no PvE experience whatsoever from BFA, not even LFR or a +2?

Don’t answer. That’s rhetorical. I know why I’m not surprised.

It’s true, though. Most other specs go through ups and downs. For example Subtlety is currently the least-played spec, but there have been plenty of times since Legion where it’s seen a lot of play. Survival is the one that’s most consistently at the lower end of parse counts, and it’s even worse when Hunters are a much more popular class than Rogues.

You don’t come to discussions without being informed.

Every discussion about raiding representation on the forums uses warcraftlogs as the source. Not knowing that = don’t post until you find out. I did mention Warcraftlogs too.

Again this line of discussion is not working out for you. Especially when the data has been directly linked at this point. It’s over. You’re just repeating this because you think it has impact.

BM didn’t have ranged shots in its part of the spellbook. Does that mean BM was not a ranged spec?

Did MM not use pets because all t hose were labeled under BM?

Did neither BM nor MM use traps because they were labeled under SV?

Those elements were part of the class. SV had only a small handful of melee enhancements and they were entirely for situational usage given Hunters couldn’t shoot people up close back then and enemies in PvP would use that to their advantage. Speccing SV would still mean primarily using a ranged weapon and spending as much time at range as possible; ideally 100%. Not at all comparable to modern melee SV (which lacks a ranged weapon) no matter how hard revisionists try.

In fact the only big melee damage buff of the tree, Savage Strikes, was high up in SV so any PvP Hunter build usually took it. Even BM and MM.

Sounds like being uninformed is undermining you again.

What would you know? Evidently you aren’t even playing on your Hunter. In fact you don’t even have any talents set on your Hunter which means you haven’t played it since prepatch dropped.

This is what Azortharion wrote about it. Since you don’t know who he is, he’s one of the lead theorycrafters for Hunters. He runs the Hunter discord and writes the Icy Veins guides.

60% of your active time is Mongoose Bite. Most of the rest is Kill Command. That’s what he means by “closest thing to a genuine 2-button rotation you will ever likely see”. It’s not literally 2 button because it’s unlikely for any spec to ever genuinely be only 2 buttons making up the entire output. Occasionally you have other abilities filling in. But the spec is absolutely revolving around Mongoose Bite spam and KC resets and most people find this playstyle repulsive. WotLK genuinely has a better Survival playstyle and that released 14 years ago… and that version of SV is also ranged! Must be why over 80% of WotLK Hunters play it. That’s what a well-designed spec looks like. Not this garbage they have in Dragonflight.

And that means you’re wrong when you say all the complaints are from people who want SV to be ranged. Even people who like melee SV are complaining.

Unlike you I actually keep up to date with Hunter discussions. There is a lot of disconent here, on youtube, and on discord.

That’s Marcelian’s review of it. In case you don’t know (and you of all people definitely don’t) Marcelian is (are? there are 2 hosts) one of the biggest Survival fanboys on youtube. They’ve spoken incredibly favourably about the spec in the past. If they of all people are sounding the alarm on DF Survival things are really bad.

You have very little to go on so you post nonsense arguments just to have a response. In this case your argument about SV not being an unpopular spec is “there are literally more than 0 people playing it”. What a useless observation! It’s not possible to have literally 0 people playing a spec when you are talking about a pool of thousands of players. The fact is that it’s very unpopular.

I’m disagreeing with you.

Follow your own advice: come up with data to prove it. The data points to SV being very unpopular.

No, anecdotes are not data.

It’s just common sense. They’ve sunk a ton of time and effort into something that isn’t working.

Ranged SV from 3.0 to 6.2 saw few fundamental updates. It got the classwide changes like focus + new talents in Cata and MoP but fundamentally it kept the same basic playstyle principles and identity that entire time. Meanwhile it remained a popular option. Low maintenance, high return.

Melee SV since 7.0 has seen major revision after major revision. I’d argue it had already seen more time and effort by 8.3 than ranged SV ever got and now it’s seen a whole lot more on top of that. Yet it remains a deeply flawed and widely reviled spec. High maintenance, low return.

Common sense is that ranged SV was the better iteration. It would have taken far less effort to just keep working on that and it would have had a far better result. We wouldn’t be in here in a thread called “Delusional SV Hunters” posted by an SV Hunter sounding the alarm on the dismal state of the spec. And on top of that we would have all those wasted development hours back to work on more important things. Notice it’s not just Survival suffering. The entire class is slipping in design standards. It’s unlikely that having to spend to much time on melee SV has nothing to do with that.

I took the courtesy of cutting out quite a bit of my previous post to make it not so excessively long, but I’m not going to bother with this one so enjoy the page-filling essay.

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The survival tree was literally mostly melee focused. You cant dance around that forever. I know it stings you greatly because it just makes the majority of your arguments collapse

And I know that pains you more than your mom saying hello to the milk man

off of what, the 3 forum topics and your lvl 10 alts saying this? LOL Remember little Bepples, this isnt talked about anywhere else in game, social media, whatever. Its usually just here and mostly from you.

This is whats called gas lighting. This is also whats known as lack of testosterone

OMG THE SPEC MUST BE BAD! A YOUTUBER DOESNT LIKE IT SO NOW THIS IS UTTER COLLAPSE OF THE HUNTER SPEC! IF ONLY BLIZZARD LISTENED TO THE YOUTUBERS WHO NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT ON CLASS DESIGN!

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Every post of their’s has had insults in it so this is false.

“Just Google it” is not a valid rebuttal nor evidence in and of itself.

You don’t know what an ad hominem is, if you make a claim you back it up, simple as that, it’s not the people disagreeing with you’d job to look up your evidence for you.

And I have spoken of my experience, I have not however claimed exact numbers and I haven’t claimed exact numbers and then have to be repeatedly asked to provide said numbers.

That’s a guideline you’ve made up is what it is.

I wasn’t dodging, I was calling you out on dodging, “see i had evidence all along I just held out on posting it till I got called on it” is not the surprise gacha you think it is.

I’ve never claimed it was popular, I’m pushing back against the narrative that it’s bad and/or universally loathed.

Not really, the insults are really the only thing to take away from this conversation, probably why no one pays the Hunter forums any time or mind.

What’s to pretend? I mained it in BFA, I mained DK for the first half of SL and then have been maiming Monk when I came back, people are allowed to play more than one character, only having one character/spec that you play doesn’t make your stance any stronger.

Your standards or people you put on Pedastels are not required to play any of the Hunter specs.

A guide writer apparently? Still don’t care.

I know what Warcraft logs is. I also know in a discussion where you make claims with numbers you better provide to the evidence to back it up rather than drag things out or demand your opposition do your work for you.

You have peppered all of your posts with insults about the intelligence of people disagreeing with you, that’s an insult. “I’m just telling it like it is” is not the triumphant cry you think it is.

None of your posts have been of value, you drag things on needlessly, hold everyone to made up standards and don’t participate in the discussion except to insult or demean or demands others do your argument for you or fanboy over a writer as some sort of win.

And you’re surprised the Hunter forums with posts like these are ignored? Why would anyone want to engage with you positively?

There was PVE and PVP, which is why I didn’t bother with M+ for the most part, I miss PVP in BFA, hopefully DF will be better about it than SL was.

You brought the claim in, not me. Are you gonna demand people know your Facebook page as well in future arguments than grill them on not automatically having what’s in your head?

“Just Google this until you find the specific thing I’m thinking of” is not a defense.

AFTER you got called on refusing to show it.

Completely missing the point and going off on a non-Sequitur.

More making stuff and insults, kay.

The only one being undermined is you and addiction to insults. You can’t have a conversation at all.

By actually playing the class rather than just complaining on forums where no one will hear about it?

I just got through running them through Uld a few times to get the new amor mogs actually.

the Hunter I played in BFA? You correct, I have a new Hunter I made to learn the talent trees organically, faster EXP gains facilitate being able to try out new characters and builds. Vovk is the Hunter I’m playing going into DF.

Which again, means little to nothing to me. And most players probably. He’s a theorycrafter. He writes guides. And? What does that have to do with anything?

“You’re gonna use your main damage dealing ability a lot!” Is not a condemnation.

Because that’s the main damage dealer, is Marksman an X-button spec cause of Aimed Shot?

Not better, just different. I wouldn’t be playing Survival if it was still ranged, I really love melee Survival, I just wish we could get dual wielding back (Technically we still can we just can’t use or abitlies with it)

I would not use what the Classic players use as barometer for… anything really, if I’m being honest.

And back to insults, Kay.

I’ve seen all of 1 or 2 people who say they like Melee Survival complain about DF Survival. All the complaints have been the usual from the Ranged Survival crowd.

Not clicking it.

So don’t matter in the slightest… have you tried just playing the class and thinking for yourself and having fun instead of fanboying over all these theorycrafters?

I’m disagreeing with you, you in turn respond with insults. What’s their to “stall”? What do you think I’m waiting on? What are you waiting on?

And I’m disagreeing with you, I see it getting played in-game, In not small amounts.

In specific observed content, I forgot what it was, Icy Veins add or something else that monitored parses in raids when SL just came out that someone went looking on any charcater claiming I hadn’t done the raid at all, I checked the site that had “info” on my character and correct it showed them not doing the raid at all, which I just pointed to the WoW profile where it did have the correct amount of completions listed, asking around people have to have those adds installed to collect info during the raid, lots of potential blind spots and it’s why I’m wary of any third party site advertising anything.

Define not working, people play, it’s not universally loathed, it’s not even universally last in those charts you praise.

along Ranged Hunter enthusiasts yes, but it brought in a new audience who appreciate it.

Your OPINION is that it was better, you don’t dictate sense or facts.

Yeah, that thread title isn’t sus at all.

Hunter design had the most work and communication given by the designer in DF this gas, have you missed all that? The new designer is getting praise for their approach (those poor Bear Druids).

And again something you made up to justify your bias and malice.

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And then I provided said numbers. So what exactly is the point of this conversation, again?

No it’s just the website literally everyone uses to analyse raid statistics. You wouldn’t know that, though.

This is like saying someeone’s dodging by not providing data proving the sky is blue. Melee Survival’s unpopularity is a known quantity. Agian, you wouldn’t know, but people who post about the class here and on discord know what Warcraftlogs is and know what Surviva’s representation looks like. Your whole argument is basically saying it’s my fault you’re so uninformed… even after I linked the data.

You said you saw plenty of them in game. So no you’re not correct just because there’s at least 1 person playing Survival.

Yet you’re still here responding.

We can now see you literally didn’t play it beyond world quests and random BGs yet you’re trying to speak with authority on it’s representation. The nerve…

You know what it is now. You clearly didn’t when you arrived in the thread.

I really don’t care about you crying about insults. Fact of the matter is I don’t respect you or your arguments so I’m not going to pretend that I do.

I’m not going to act like everyone needs to be informed on the intricacies of class representation in WoW. However if you show up to a forum discussion on representation I expect you to know a thing or two before trying to speak with authority. I have less than zero respect for people who speak with confidence on topics they know nothing about. That goes beyond just WoW.

You said when you came into the thread that you see plenty of SV Hunters in game in “Dungeons and Raids and PvP” yet it’s evident your experience is limited in all those areas. Your SV Hunter has ZERO dungeons and raids from BFA completed, ZERO ranked arena matches, and a grand total of 69 lifetime BGs. You don’t have the sort of experience to be pretending that what you’ve seen in game means anything.

You’re the one relying entirely on anecdotes so you’re in no place to be attacking me for not posting proof. Especially when I have posted proof.

At this point it’s pretty evident you’re projecting so there’s not much else to say on this particular subject. Nothing of value is coming from talking to someone so critically uninformed.

Survival is an unpopular spec and its playstyle has poor reception over all. Those things are obvious facts and you don’t have the knowledge or experience to dispute that or pretend your anecdotal experiences mean anything at all.

I’m not going to go line by line here to the rest of the 100 lines you posted because it’s mostly just you repeating yourself for the sake of having a response to every line. But this caught my eye:

Yet again you expose how out of touch you are with Hunters. Go check on that thread again. After a promising early stage of development that abruptly stopped around mid August and the Hunter trees stagnated for the rest of the beta. Given Hunter trees started off really bad, and the updates were each very small and not entirely positive changes (at one point they gave us a talent which gave dodge chance), our trees are still in a mediocre-at-best position with Survival having the worst.

Once again it’s clear you’re speaking from the perspective of an ephemerally interested melee player who only occasionally dabbles in the Hunter class. Unfortunately you happen to be the exact target audience for melee Survival, and that’s why it’s not a popular spec: most Hunters don’t want to play it and most fans of the spec are people like you who mostly stick to your melee mains anyway.

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100% right. Only spec that can pull their weight is BM hunter. I guess devs think that if 1 out of 3 specs is in the mid pack, the class is fine. Hunter class three and in this case SV and MM class tree showed the lack of interest and laziness on developers side.

For people who think this is another “I WANT RANGED SURVIVAL BACK” it’s not. I’m a big melee SV fan, more then it was ranged, and everyone know that I argued many times with Beppels about identity od SV and how in my opinion is better as melee (since it started originally with melee abilites). But here I say again that current version of SV hunter is really bad design.

What I heavily dislike about SV hunter is how you think you have any choice but you boiled down to one because one set of talents heavily outperforms the other choice. And you know that playstyle during 9.2.5 where you where fishing for WF bomb procs and no one loved it? Yea they want to continue on that design where you have to fish for KC rests.

Imagine warrior fishing procs with Slam to get something? You think people would love it? They need to sit down, but first kick Brian Holinka from the meeting, and then think about SV design.

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he does. a simple raider io seach will show that in season 4 when survival was doing 10 million % more damage than the other 2 hunter specs it was matched by equal amount of players that played bm which was near the bottom of every spec in game.

right now in this 10.0 season 4 patch where survival hunters are near bottom they are only represented by around 10k players. meanwhile bm is represented currently by almost 70k players.

when survival is doing bad damage wise nobody is playing it. when it is doing 10 million % damage than everyone else. fred, carl and karen are the only 3 people playing it.

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Oh hey, I had forgotten about this thread till the last reply.

Beats me, I have no idea what you’re trying to gain from it.

Irreverent, you mention specifics you bring them first thing, not make others call you out on them.

More insults, Kay.

And yet you had to be badgered to provide it.

You make the claim, you back it up. It’s that simple. Go anywhere and have an argument and demand your opposition do your work for you and you would be laughed out of the conversation.

That you had to be called on to link in the first place.

I do.

Hilariously I wasn’t since I forgot about till the light-necro below XD

yeah the Nerve That Mythic Raiding isn’t the only content in the game, the nerve.

I didn’t immediately recognize a cropped screenshot without context no, I know what Warcraftlogs is.

And this is why no one, least of all Blizz Hunter deisgners, will pay your or argument or those like it any kind, why would they? You’re just wallowing in rage and spite and lashing out at everyone like a bully, people like you are why Hunter’s have bad reputations.

You better bring receipts and examples rather than have your opposition demand it from you, kinda simple actually.

And once more why any points you make are worthless. You just insult and dismiss anyone who disagrees with you or who doesn’t read your mind.

I do.

blink blink blink wait wait WAIT LMAO YOU’RE SERIOUSLY CLAIMING I CANT SAY IVE SEEN OTHER SURVIVAL HUNTERS IN GAME UNLESS I’M ACTUALLY PLAYING SURVIVAL AT THE TIME OMG THIS MADE ME LAUGH FOR REAL.

Omg Thankies for that, that’s hilarious. And just further everything how detached you are from, well, everything.

Again, people are allowed to play more than one class, you should try it some time, you might actually have fun.

I am since you didn’t post proof until you weee “attacked” on it. Aka called out, the bare minimum.

And I’d say you’re projecting since that phrase makes no sense here, you’re the one angry and throwing insults cause someone isn’t agreeing with you in your need to be petty and hateful.

By monitoring updates on them, other classes, and the GM’s overall?

I followed the blue posts and Wowhead collections, I didn’t just stick to one single thread, let me guess it would have more of your “opinions” in it?

“How dare anyone play more than 1 class, people should be banned from doing that!” Is how you sound.

Someone who enjoys it?

You keep saying that.

Tactician says hello.

raider IO covers Raiding from what’s trawled, not the game over.

And more addressing your necro, if you make a claim YOU back it up. “Brooke’s finally eventually provided receipts after being pressed on it!” Is not the back pat you think it is.

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What’s even more telling about those statistics is Marksmanship has more players than Survival even though MM’s tuning is terrible right now.

I’ll repeat it again for people who miss/wilfully ignore it: most specs don’t need best-in-the-game damage to achieve middle-of-the-pack representation. If SV needs to be overtuned to see play that means the DESIGN is bad and it’s not enough to patch it up with mere TUNING.

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Agree 100%

I Pre 9.2.5 SV hunter had better design. Tier sets forced worst game play design you can imagine. Over capping heavily on resources to get a proc. They took away cluster which was amazing design for extra AOE damage, and gave us FOTE that does wet noodle damage

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You’re the one perpetuating it.

They come up in these threads literally all the time. If someone doesn’t know or isn’t informed, I link them.

Example:

Otherwise I will mention them in passing because, to be frank, this is all mostly common knowledge on the Hunter forum.

You’re desperate to set up an argument that says I’m avoiding confrontation and making claims without proof. That doesn’t work when I’ve literally posted proof. Not having posted it in the first post here doesn’t matter. I wasn’t talking to you in that post, I was talking to people who were aware of the real situation. When you made it clear that you were unaware/uninformed, I linked them. I shouldn’t have to because WCL parse counts are a well-known source of information everyone relies on, but I linked them anyway.’.

Repeating this is tiresome so I’m not going to address it any more. The data has been linked, it’s done and dusted. You were uninformed and wrong, to no one’s surprise. Repeatedly shouting “you need to prove your claims!!!” after proof has literally been posted has to be one of the most transparently desperate and pathetic arguments I’ve ever seen here, and it comes across as blatant projection to distract from the fact that you have no data to go on but rather just your own anecdotes.

Forget mythic raiding: you haven’t even done Normal. You’re literally talking about world questing at best, maybe some LFR. You’re talking about areas of the game you have minimal to no experience in.

This is not to shame anyone for not wanting to raid. But if you’re going to talk about SV’s representation in PvE and PvP, a) you’d better not base your argument on personal experience rather than data, and b) if you did do that… you’d better have some personal experience to begin with.

The screenshot was obviously WCL. It’s how their spec data tables on the default view have looked since the site was created ~8 years ago. The only way to not know it was WCL is if you had never seen WCL before. After all, why would you have seen it? You don’t raid.

Tone policing :sleeping:

I don’t insult and dismiss people just for disagreeing with me. I insult and dismiss people who have nothing to go on and try to speak with authority on things they know nothing about.

Lol? The point was that was supposedly your main class for a significant amount of time yet you seemingly did no content on it.

Achievements are account-bound, you know. So it’s notable that you have few PvE achievements and the ones you do have are mostly from way past when the content is current. You also have very few PvP achievements. Again I’m not going to fault anyone for playing casually, but it’s evident you do very little group content in this game so you’re not in a place to pretend your personal experience in terms of SV’s popularity amount to anything at all.

If you care about personal experience so much, here’s mine and you can check my armory to verify. I’ve done hundreds of M+ and epic battlegrounds. That’s accessible content even for casuals. Survival is the least-common spec I see by far. It’s regular to go into epic BGs and see 10-15 Hunters or more with just 0-1 SV Hunters.

Ironically the one place you do see SV more often is in arenas i.e. more hardcore content. I don’t speak from experience there but rather the data. It’s not an amazingly popular spec or anything but it’s at least on the radar in arenas. So it’s not like the spec is amazingly popular with casual players while hardcore players avoid it. If anything it’s the opposite; casual players are probably engaging with it less than hardcore players.

Projecting means accusing someone else of mistakes/flaws that actually apply to yourself. It’s a way of distracting and stalling. It can be conscious or subconscious. When you say I don’t bring proof of my claims to the discussion, you’re saying that because you don’t have proof for your own claims so instead of having to explain that you just project it to me instead as a distraction.

It doesn’t seem like you monitor updates well since your take is as surface-level as “Hunters must be good because they got a lot of blue posts a few months back”.

If you did you would know about the shortcomings of the changes and updates.

Pop quiz: can you name the useless stat that Blizzard at one point put as a talent node on our base class tree?

It’s not about playing more than one class. It’s about trying to give takes on Hunters while being extremely uninformed/disengaged about Hunters.

Nope: an ephemerally interested melee player who only occasionally dabbles in the Hunter class, like I said before you awkwardly broke this part up into different lines. Survival is designed as a melee player’s alt rather than a hunter player’s main. You can even see this with WoW influencers; those that have a lot of personal experience with Hunters like Bellular, Preach, and Izen Hart have been more critical of melee SV, while those that come mainly from melee mains with less experience with Hunters are more supportive of it like Asmongold and Marcelian.

There are dedicated Hunters that like the spec, for sure, but by and large it’s a spec for melee players to play around with on their Hunter alts rather than a third option for Hunters. Hazzikostas himself outlined it this way in that interview I linked earlier.

Yes Jinday is literally a fan of melee Survival. You can see this from his post history. He’s typically been very fanboyish about the spec and critical of ranged Survival.

He literally linked to M+ statistics. You seriously need to stop talking about things you know nothing about because you evidently just assumed it was about raiding based on the name of the website.

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Why do you continue then?

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ive been having a great time on sv, and this expansion i plan on getting into mythic raiding with sv

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Ive been enjoying SV hunter as my main class/spec since Legion and that is not about to change. People gonna hate on it, but thankfully there is plenty of other classes/specs to go around. I ain’t stopping on account of other people’s opinion.

The spec feels good to play for those who enjoy it.

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exactly, bepples spends more time typing up a dissertation about why he dislikes survival than actually playing the game

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This is circular reasoning. Of course if people enjoy it the playstyle is good, and for those whom the playstyle is good it’s enjoyable. The problem is very few people enjoy it or find it good to play.

People like Nozohash will blissfully ignore this and pretend everything is fine because they think it helps the spec’s image, but ironically this means there’s less pressure to actually improve the spec.

P.S. People aren’t just hating on it for the hell of it, you know. There’s hate because it represents a colossal waste of effort and portential. It’s the single most reworked spec yet it consistently comes up short in actually appealing to any significant amount of players, and it replaced a formerly very popular and low-maintenance spec. I’ve spoken to Hunters who would rather the spec be deleted entirely rather than floundering for years on end and soaking up countless hours of development. I don’t go that far but I’d rather they’d cut the nonsense and go back to something that worked, and worked well. Chances are most of the melee SV mains would be fine with a ranged version regardless. Melee to ranged isn’t so much a dealbreaker as ranged to melee, not least because ranged specs can also fight in melee.

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