Do you have an source that breaks down how many people do it because they want to vs they have to?
You are correct. Unfortunately you seem to be too ignorant to do so.
You can not like it, but math doesn’t care about your feelings.
Do you have an source that breaks down how many people do it because they want to vs they have to?
You are correct. Unfortunately you seem to be too ignorant to do so.
You can not like it, but math doesn’t care about your feelings.
I know. I mean common sense right! I’m not sure why people don’t want to fix these issues. Do you really want the game to continue to suffer and community to keep being so unhappy?
This thread gave me the idea to bump my Mega thread on the topic that was heavily like.
I see a World of Warcraft without M+ and it’s beautiful. Now I’m willing to offer an olive branch and keep M+ in the game btw for the few people that enjoy it. However M+ shouldn’t reward any gear so it only attracts players that actually want to do that activity.
/fixed
Because they aren’t issues for people actually doing the content. They are made up complaints by people who have never touched the content. If you don’t do the content, your opinion on said content means nothing. Sorrynotsorry.
M+ is NOT content!! It’s an activity. Please refer to the Mega thread I linked if you are confused.
There is so much more to World of Warcraft then M+ and honestly most players rather not partake in that activity. So why not make actual content and focus on the game again. You can’t substitute content for M+. That doesn’t work and it hasn’t worked which is why this game is failing.
Again already offered a fix that will keep M+ players happy.
If M+ is optional and only for season competition then you won’t have it being toxic cesspool where players are forced to do it. Arena and M+ shouldn’t reward gear and be ONLY for competition.
You do not get to decide what I, or anyone else, deems content. It is something I enjoy, really the ONLY thing I enjoy about the game still. Don’t like it? Well that’s just too bad.
Yes we do using logic and facts. If a pen is Blue I’m not deciding that it is Blue…The pen is just Blue. It’s a fact.
Just like M+ is factually NOT content. Which is the huge problem with modern WoW is there is hardly any content anymore and they just have repetitive activities or chores they try to funnel players into.
Again please review the mega thread for guidance and good luck
I’ma meet half way on this one. Ahnohla is right on the point with the fact a lot of people do like M+, mounts, titles, all that are motivators, same w/ gearing for raid tiers (N/H/M).
How you define “Content” is really more subjective than not. Clearly people have no issues running the same thing 20 million times over (hyperbole). I see it as Content, but not end game content. To me its just a means to content and activities i’d prefer to be involved with by the time I hit mid range ilvl, or max if possible.
M+ to me is not the “end,” but a means to the end. When I’m done w/ raids, and other PvE, my default setting is PvP ,Bgs, and not farming for “PvP” gear, because imo that is perhaps the lamest thing i’ve heard of, its like cutting out end game content and turning it into a grind. Similar to what M+ should be until end game.
If Raid is end game content, then what is the point of grinding for gear? What is the end game? Transmog/mount farms? That is something I’ve had a hard time determining, because it seems a bit open ended and vacant.
Right. I don’t fault people who primarily raid being a little salty that they feel forced into a piece of content that they do not enjoy, but to be fair if I wanted to be BiS then I would be forced to raid… but no one seems to want to acknowledge that. That said, since I only do M+, I would be perfectly ok with completely decoupling them. M+ for M+ gear and Raid for raid gear… unfortunately it’s not entirely about me and some people do enjoy both so I will never truly advocate for it.
I don’t know what the solution is, or even if there is a solution, but I do know that removing something people enjoy would be a really bad business decision.
I am all for discussions on how things could be made better, but remove M+ (and for me, remove anything) is a complete non-starter.
edit: Also, Abomb was lighting up these forums a few months ago about how New World was going to absolutely destroy WoW, so he is just dumb.
Completely understandable, and agreed there.
But how I look at it, if 1-60 is the “beginning” game, then you have to gear for a purpose, which should be “mid game.” Well what is End game?
Because you can gear multiple ways now (for some reason?). Raid, PvP, or M+, but what are we gearing for, what is the purpose behind it, outside “BIS” stats? What does this ultimately lead us to in content, other than helping us gear up to perform better?
There is a nothing after you do those things, no reason to log in after those points, if not for vanity and “3,500” IO (hyperbole) bragging rights. I mean, I don’t, I feel like they need to figure out what they’re doing with WoW because its the same pattern, and then its standing around in org in trade chat talking politics, in fact most people tend to skip what I consider mid game and go straight for trade chat. Then numbers of subs fall off until next patch/raid/etc.
I looked at new world, and laughed hard. Then watched 20 people try to skin the same bear, except they couldn’t , because only one person can at a time, no matter whether grouped or not. The quest pathing was a joke, sending you literally back and forth between towns. Then people bricked their graphics cards. I’d never been so glad not to have participated in an mmo before lmao.
According to Blizzard the 3 pillars of endgame are M+, Raids, and PvP… unfortunately it’s not worked out that way. Some of it probably is a design issue, but it’s also partly a player issue.
Raid gear is not required for me to do the content I do. M+ gear is not required for the content you do. Now I do know things are a little wonky because of the ilvl from the vault for M+ vs the ilvl from the vault for heroic, but I am speaking in more general concepts.
I bought it because I am dumb. As you know (because I have mentioned probably a billion times), I play FFXIV in addition to WoW. Well the major drawing point for FFXIV for me is I really like their gathering/crafting system. Soooo… along comes NW and my friend’s buy it and they are going on and on about how great the gathering/crafting was so I am like AMAZON TAKE MY MONEY. End result is, my friends and I have very different opinions about great gathering/crafting.
I think those are some bad design philosophies. Even in ESO, which is by no means perfect or even close to a 6/10, but they still understood what end game content was, and how they organized it was pretty smooth. You got gear , either from professions (even end game gear), pve, raid, and then you went on to participate in PvP. That was end game, you could skip the PvE part if you wanted to, nothing holding you back, and no “separate” gear vendor bs.
In my eyes, they need to fix the secondary stat issue, bring back armor values, use an armor penetration stat, get rid of mastery/vers, put more emphasis on primary stats (Agi,Int,Str) use haste/crit/crit resist/spell resist stats, and balance classes across the board as such. Put in a margin of DPS difference between classes as within 2% but topping out at (example) 10k or whatever, put more emphasis on utility, add more community content. Housing could be one example, adding in other activities such as mini games that aren’t terrible World quests, or war tablesque ideas. Maybe having a large instance region for pvp, with unique combat (ESO had sieges), and unique types of “Transmog” you could get, mounts, mixed pve/pvp content. Some kind of filler to keep people around and active.
Yeah i’m a very picky gamer, you can’t sell me a game by recommendation lmao, I will research it. I like in depth meaningful content. Ashes of Creation is one that has caught my eye specifically due to their sandbox mmo style, and in-depth professions, and general content across the board where raids change as do cities and people who can run them, the guild halls and more. But it is still in alpha 2 i believe.
I’d never play a game where PvP was the endgame. If I wanted a PvP focused game I would play one, but this has never been that… and hopefully never will be.
I think we just have very different ideas on what would keep players around. I mean adding new and diverse things would be cool, but it would 100% not keep me around if my only choice of endgame content was pvp.
I’d honestly be shocked if AoC ever released. I did think it looked cool when I first heard about it several years ago.
Absolutely why I made remarks about other content as filler for the void, and not PvP, but I used ESO as an example of knowing what their end game was at least.
In WoW, I’m not sure if even grinding gear is worth while, half the time I’m bored.
They do monthly updates/ if not bi weekly updates on its progress, it has come a long way.
IMHO, gear is a means to an end. I gear up to do the content I want to do, once I do that I don’t really give a pig’s fart about it.
I realize I could be an anomaly in that regard.
I know, I just still don’t trust it. I will check it out if it ever releases, but still wouldn’t surprise me if it turns out to be vaporware.