Delaying Engineering Goggles is a bad idea

WoW Classic Mists of Pandaria Classic Discussion
1

“Epic engineering goggles will become available from trainers with the Tier 5 phase”

Considering the changes to other professions like enchanting, jewelcrafting, and leatherworking to allow for a wider range of professions and more person choice, the decision to completely gut engineering like this is questionable at best.

I’ve yet to see a solid justification on doing this, and it means that engineering will be dropped like the plague, especially if P5 content takes several months to be released. Engineering goggles, while released at a later point in TBC, were MEANT to be part of the profession from the start. They were not released with the intent of being on par with T5 gear.

Nearly all baseline epic goggles are WORSE than T5 for every single class, and still worse than P1 crafted gear in some instances too. If we’re going to let tailoring be insanely dominant, then why target engineering goggles? The stats do not represent this. They will be utterly useless to most players by the time P5 gear is available.

And because I’ve already done a lot of research on this, and can anticipate a few things:

“They are level 62 too, way too good!” - Goggles require Primal Nether, which are BoP and require level 70 content to acquire. They won’t be available for lower level players in P1.

“The stats are insane!” - You must be looking at the Sunwell versions, these goggles won’t be available until Sunwell where the patterns drop. If the goggles require level 70 to use, they are Sunwell.

“Goggles were broken back in the day!” - For some classes, sure. The offspec classes that had poorly itemized gear saw cast improvements from goggles, just like Shadow Priests are insane in P1 with Frozen Shadoweave. Some crafted gear is better itemized than poorly designed set gear.

To release goggles in T5 means that engineering will be basically pointless. The Epic goggles are the only strong piece for the engineers. Without them we lose access to profession specific power, can’t track clouds at all, and won’t have any meaningful access to progression of power for our profession. Basically everything you can make is already disabled in arena, so why kick the profession when it’s down?

If you want to change leatherworking so not everyone has to be leatherworking, fix goggles so not everyone drops engineering. The power increase is way over exaggerated and I can prove that numerically. P5 goggle release will basically invalidate the profession aside from cloud hunting, which again YOU CAN’T TRACK WITHOUT THE GOGGLES.

6 Likes
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Engineering in BC was more than the goggles. They were great, I don’t like them being delayed either, but the prof had other gimmicks that made it fascinating.

They had pot injectors, with a buff to the injector if you had Engineering, so for casters, Tailoring / Engineering wasn’t a bad go to.

Bombs. I mean, these are always free damage.

Rocket boots, scopes, repair bots, the mount, the guns, the ammo.

And for some, the goggles are still good going into Tier 5. Comparable with the T5 helm even. Had more agility on them for the rogue and Hit.

This change isn’t going to ruin Engineering.

4 Likes
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LW literally just got dumpstered to the point we’re all going to expect our shaman friends to bring drums cause it ain’t worth using for crafted gear that gets replaced in phase 1. Feel you’re being rather selective here about changes and the benefits it gives professions.

Plus it would widely affect S1 in PVP as well. Although with recent changes…That probably matters a lot less now lol. But engineering has a lot of quirks to it. Adding it in p1 would add more player power. And everyones already crying about things being too easy.

Plus I can’t lie…Vanilla = engineering and WotLK = engineering…I think it’s okay engineering isn’t locked in from p1 for PVE too. Although my prot paladin will have it, for sure.

4

The mote extractor!

5

It may not ruin it but it definitely has no pull. Other professions are just straight better without the goggles.

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to some classes sure, but its always been a great companion prof once you got your main one sorted. Tailoring / Engi, LW / Engi, BS / Engi, its just a fair choice. You could run Enchanting, Herb, Mining, ect, but in raw performance, you end up getting more out of having Engineering, bombs have always been something people weave into their rotations for that extra DPS, people will continue to do it. Even tanking, you could make a pretty decent stam gun, and you had the rocket launchers with high stam. I’ve known many tanks that ran Engi / BS.

The Goggles I feel were most likely just a gear catch up. They were on par with Tier 5, and released with Tier 6 with rather cheap requirements.

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As long as I can make the Goblin Rocket Launcher, I will love engineering in TBC.

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Design flaw. Now fixed …

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The second upgrade was phase 5 everyone keeps saying that the first version was just slightly better than heroic gear… The bombs don’t out do raw stats of enchanting / Jewel crafting.

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There are two versions of the Goggles. The ones that compare to tier 5 that can be equipped at 62, and the pair you get from a plan in Sunwell that are insanely good. The Tier 5 comparable ones vary in usefulness by class, but as I see you’re posting from a rogue, yours are comparable to the Tier 5 Helmet. Depending on the state of your gear, they may even be better.

Grenades usefulness depends on the fight. Multiple adds on the fight? You’ll do more damage with grenades than 4 stats to ring, or a Jewel crafting gem. Single Target? Unless you’re prepared to throw down the numbers, i’d wager the diff is negligible.

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From what I read rogues use +2 damage per ring which with bladefury adds up to more than a grenade on boss/ aoe packs.
Formula: Enchant Ring - Striking

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At 4 damage (two rings) on to an auto, with grenades doing 700 - 800 damage, Bladeflurry hitting an additional enemy, grenades hitting them all, if its a fight with two adds, you’d need to hit the mobs 200 times in that buff uptime to get the grenades worth out of striking. If its a pack of of three, even more. The more adds, the more value the grenade gives, and with the grenade you can couple it again with Bladeflurry. So you’re getting both the cleave onto the additional target, and the AoE burst every few min.

13

People underestimate the power of engineering even without googles. Bombs are exceptional for aoe damage. The goggles is one of the few changes I think they got right. Most of the other stuff though. Pretty bad.

1 Like
14

those goggles also had something unique, which was the cloud tracking for motes. Kinda dumb to delay that is used for p1 to another phase. Only reason I can see for it is because of it’s tracking and want it to be for catch up gear.

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Show me the player power it adds. Don’t just claim it adds it. Because I have done the comparisons. It’s barely an upgrade on most fronts. It also would not be a bis option for every class.

Also if you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t post. Pre-Raid BiS for EVERY class that has Leatherworking gear is leatherworking BoP gear. Stop with the drums memes. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

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Pre raid =! BiS for the phase. Literally go to the discords on classes and you’ll see everyone telling you to NOT craft LW gear because it’s a massive waste and gets replaced by Kara. Perhaps YOU should learn something before speaking.

The player power? It’d be BiS for several specs but you’re right it wouldn’t be BiS for everyone. However in PVP it’d be automatically BiS for every rogue and quite frankly you’d probably want it even on non-rogues, least humans, for more ability to stop opener.

You want dual professions giving you power and then the shaman popping drums to increase that power even further. It’s not a meme, it’s literally the reality now.

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Ruin? No. But it’s the exact same issue with Enchanting and Jewelcrafting. People worried that without some way to restrict players taking the profession benefits and swapping we would have no jewelcrafters or enchanters, just like right now in Classic with blacksmiths and enchanters. So they made a change.

But now, you have everyone wanting to drop engineering because it’s useless. AND IT IS. Don’t give me crap about bombs. That 2 dps increase from a bomb isn’t worth anything. You can’t use them in arena. Only matters for world pvp, which died with flying mounts. Who’s going to make your scopes? No one will want a useless profession.

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This is a lie I keep seeing repeated. No, bombs and sappers aren’t “Amazing” for aoe. You think that because of classic. The new sapper in TBC does slightly less than twice the damage of current sappers on a 5 minute cooldown. The problem is that you don’t have 40 people in raid anymore. So you might have ONE engineer. Using ONE sapper. When they could be using their class aoe, that does more on average and also scales. Hurray. Sappers are no longer meta in TBC because it’s no longer about just pulling all the trash and burning it down. Those mechanics are GONE. You need to use CC again.

No one is underestimating anything. The benefits of engineering in TBC are much weaker. You have mote extraction (but no tracking) and you have some little toys with little impact. You literally have posts on this forum about swapping off engineering without goggles.

19

Not every profession is amazing. In terms of min maxing you go BS/Tailoring with Enchanting/JC or you just go Enchanting/JC.

You have a few people (shamans) go LW to give everyone drums. That’s the extent for LW until SWP when they actually get patterns that are BiS for some.

Notice how Alchemy has been completely left out? Doesn’t mean it isn’t good to have, for personal use or gold. But in Min max there’s no question it doesn’t provide much. I get you want engi to be better but the notion that goggles p1 changes nothing is factually incorrect. Plus reality is it’s not the only profession that lacks oomph in PVE in P1.

Edit: And if you like BGs it definitely has use. Plus like I said earlier…it’s the defacto dominate profession in Wrath just like it was in Classic.

20

You’re wrong:

Netherstrike is bis for ele shaman even in T4.

Ebon Netherscale is bis for enhancement even in T4.

Ebon Netherscale is bis for Hunters even in T4.

Primalstrike full set bonus is bis for feral dps, though there are side upgrades potentially.

Primalstrike full set is comparable to T4 for rogues.

Why would you lie about something you clearly didn’t bother to research? Also you wouldn’t need it on humans that’s not how perception works. You’d just be doubling up on something. You’d rather want it on non-humans for the opposite reason. But stopping rogue openers with goggles is such a literal niche mechanic as to be laughable. There’s a reason paranoia is considered to be a joke.

Also you do realize that players will just go enchanting, jewelcraffting, or some other profession and double up on the power right? removing the engineering goggles doesn’t suddenly stop someone from doing that.

Goggles remain bis in T5 for less than a HANDFUL of classes.