You know it’s a real shame. I come to the forums to read about the class and learn. But every single post about DK devolves in Kelliste bringing in the DW vs 2H argument and then insulting people that disagree. I just came back to wow two weeks ago and I’m not exaggerating when I say Kelliste is ruining EVERY post. We get your point. You hate 2H. Get out of here. It exhausting. You are just making the forums intolerable to read. Get a life.
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So, in essence, you’re unable to address or refute what I said, and instead resort to baseless name-calling and insulting others.
Okay, and even if that’s true I care why exactly? DW is here and it’s staying, whether or not 2h stays.
Kelliste does bring it up rather often, but to be fair, the OP did state themselves that they think 2h was implemented poorly. And I agree with the OP.
Re:
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ichborne-a-patch-3-1-talent-build-cookie-platter-for-death-kni
copy/past into google. It will be a article form engadget from 09. Its referenced as the class best kept secret.
Oh you have a pre 3.2 talent cal? Where? I been trying to find one so I could post the build.
No, it doesnt. In fact a lot of times, its people coming in that doesnt want me to talk throwing around the insults derailing threads and so on.
You dont get my point, you guys are making me hate 2h players because as others are pointing out, you guys cant refute points. At all, flat earthers of the dk community.
You get out of here. Its exhausting with you guys lying constantly about the history of the spec to push your own agenda. Its a DW spec. Dont like it, too damn bad. We all know you guys dont like the spec, and never have.
The thing is, that build doesnt match the talent tree since Obliterate, according to the talent tree I found, didnt proc rime. Icy Touch procced rime and just gave Obliterate 5% crit. It however doesnt say anything about not using diseases, or doesnt tell you what glyphs to take where Glyph of Howling Blast was probably taken like it was later on. It applied Frost Fever.
There are also several talents that work with diseases. Ignoring diseases as Frost was just a flat out bad idea. Especially if you were going to spam Obliterates. Another thing that it doesnt talk about is Killing Machine which didnt work on Obliterate either.
https ://iradei.eu/talent-calculators/wotlk/deathknight?0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
It might not be 100% accurate, but its the only one that I can find anywhere.
Its not possible to refute what you said because nothing you said had any substance behind it to begin with, You do no important content in this game, you dont que high end arenas or even lower tier arenas, you dont do any mythic raiding.
Why would anyone care about the opinion of a death knight talking about how 2h should be removed because its a nightmare when quite literally you yourself dont know that simply because you dont play the game. Youre just like k******* but at the very least youve done a tiny tiny tiny bit of content
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Why is it that you guys cant comprehend that the spec isnt that hard to understand to the point where you dont need to do any of the content that you say you have to to have an opinion about the spec?
Does the spec suddenly change mechanics when you enter Mythic raids or M+? Does Obliteration suddenly work much better for 2h? Does it just out of nowhere get more KM procs than DW? Does Rime work differently? Avalanche?
So no, you go straight to insults because you have nothing to refute what they said. Nada, zilch, zero, nothing. Take your pick.
Even the sims are basically attacking a target dummy which is what Patchwerk basically was. A target dummy that attacked tanks.
So tell everyone oh mighty DK, how does the spec change suddenly when you enter “important content” as you call it. If it doesnt change, then there is 0 reason to use your crappy argument.
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There are a lot of people that don’t visit the forums. I even only started looking at them last patch. None of my guildies use them either. I don’t know what % of the player base is active in the forum’s, but it’s got to be low.
And there has been more than 20 people in support of 2h on the forum in the last week alone. So yeah, your claim that only 20 people from the forums wanted 2h is completely baseless and not tethered to and data or fact. Like most of your opinions.
They said they would be, if the jailers mace is as good as it looks to be. I also seen discussions about how the top performers 90%+ parsers) don’t care at all about DW/2h. They will play what ever had highest output patch to patch.
You should visit the discord, I’m sure they would love you.
With the 4p obliteration is going to be very strong, even in AoE. BoS will still be king for big AoE, but at the moment NF obliteration with 4p is meta for 1-3 targets. Target swapping isn’t a big deal. Yes you lose stacks, but the only time you need stacks up 100% is during your busrt which you will have guaranteed KMs.
That’s a nice little novel you wrote about Lich King. Still doesn’t change that people want to play the petless 2h juggernaut DK that carries a strong frost aesthetic. Just do yourself a favour and Google image search “lich King”. That is the vibe we want.
Can’t believe you spend so much time arguing with people saying they can’t play what they want when it has no effect on you. You like DW, and you can play it. So just sit down and enjoy your class.
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Right, so you can’t actually discuss what I had to say, somehow aren’t able to look at what I have or have not done in the past, and then you’re going to talk trash to me about it. I’m not exactly feeling like you want a discussion here.
Interesting take.
Don’t know who that is, but it’s still funny that you think I’ve done no content in this game.
No, there hasnt been more than 20 people on the forums in support of 2h in the past week. There hasnt even been any feedback on the tier sets for a few weeks now and its been the same people over and over, some are even on alts that forget to switch.
Yes, the top people play what is best. But there in lies the downfall of another argument that 2h was best in the past… so if it was best in the past, some even saying always best, why didnt anyone play it? Why is it that Preach got rank 1 dps in cata but didnt use 2h if it was the best. Its because it wasnt the best.
I never denied that the 4pc and Obliteration are a strong combo. Burst isnt high enough to carry 2h dps thought the fight. The entire class shouldnt be judged on a 12 second window while ignoring the other 48 seconds where 2h kind of falls flat on its face depending on how lucky you are.
Thats also another thing, you get your stacks from your burst with 2h. Its the only realiable way to get full stacks. Lose your stacks right before a window and you are starting from scratch, ive lost stacks right after a PoF window, meaning after PoF was done, I had at least 15 seconds of no KM procs, then the rest of the 48 second window it felt like I was trying to claw my way back up to 5 stacks for the next window which I never got to until the next window. Everything adds up over the course of a fight and DW is much more forgiving and consistent that just praying to the RNG gods to let you get at least 1 KM proc per 15 seconds.
I know what the LK looks like. But more and more people are coming to the forums saying they want things to get faster paced. This whole juggernaut thing (which doesnt mean slow) isnt working out. Its almost like you guys got all your lore from the box art and never looked past it, never really getting into the DK as a whole, and thats the overall issue.
1sec gcd is wanted, people find it much more enjoyable to play with haste because it picks the pace up.
You guys could just play 2h with them reintroducing it without the bandaids. But you guys didnt want that did you? So this whole “you can play it” argument is moot because you arent applying the same thing to yourselves. Also, can people play DW easily with a loot system that added even more fluff to it making it harder to get 1h weapons?
And you cant enjoy frost as DW the way it was designed? Why not? Do you not like the spec or something? Have this idea about the spec and the weapons that only existed in WoD and to a certain extent MoP which were the reasons why they removed 2h in the first place?
If you really enjoyed the spec you wouldnt be asking for it to be something its not.
/Thread
Ten Char
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At this point, I don’t play my DK anymore simply because I don’t enjoy it.
Even though it’s a class I played since its official release.
Unholy spec is a great example of unbalanced class + unbalanced legendaries + unbalanced tier sets = disaster. Current Unholy is a average spec with no band-aid of powerful legendaries and then again no aid from tier sets. Limits play style.
Enhance Shaman’s legendaries and tier sets is what Developers should do when designing every spec’s “borrowed power”, great synergy with each other. As class balancing is a long term problem Developers facing, they can consider using these “borrowed power” as a band aid in between expansion to close up the gap between classes. For example, powerful legendaries band-aid for weak spec or powerful tier sets band-aid for weak legendaries.
This is the link correct?
Lichborne: A Patch 3.1 talent build cookie platter for Death Knights | Engadget
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That is it. Thanks. Also notice the part about dw.
Yes I did notice it but you know as well as I some people will ignore and still spout that frost was supposed to be dw only. And use the forever said just because you could use 2h doesn’t mean you should.
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Just because this guy didnt find the build, doesnt mean that the DW build didnt exist which was the best build at the time.
The hybrid frost/unholy DW build was everywhere. There were threads on it on elitist jerks and I think I also found one on reddit. Some people were saying use 2h with it, but the majority said to DW just because of 2 runeforges and weapon damage didnt matter because so little of the build actually used weapon strikes for weapon damage to come into play. You got Howling Blast, and you got Gargoyle. It was so powerful they had to move those 2 talents to the 51 talent so it couldnt be used again.
This was talked about long ago but I guess Vedist doesnt remember it or just doesnt care and wants to push a narrative.
Also, the author didnt say 2h frost was the best, didnt say you ran without diseases or anything else. Obliterate did 25% more damage with diseases on the target (12.5% more damage per disease). But howling Blast could do like 110% increased damage and bypass armor. Early on in the expansion you werent looking at the 100% armor pen that people were at the end of the expansion effectively making Obliterate magic damage. People were looking to get hit and expertise capped early on so anything that would give you those stats for nothing was a good choice. Like Nerves of Cold Steal or spell hit in the unholy tree since spell hit was higher than melee hit and you kind of needed that talent for Frost to hit 100% with your spells. If you went 2h, you usually went into the blood tree, which made 2h need just more hit from gear, and more expertise reducing the other stats like haste, crit and armor penetration.
Vedist likes to spout the nonsense that everyone is saying DW only. Which, I might as well just make the argument because he cant understand someone elses argument and injects his own (strawman). So Frost should be DW only. Even in Wrath 2h frost wasnt looked at because of those gearing issues alone, not to mention the mechanics of the spec pre and post 3.2.
They changed scourge strike from full shadow damage to partially physical and magic damage. Thats because magic damage scaled like crap in wrath while physical damage scaled pretty well. This was due to armor penetration. Thats why they were changing the specs up, not because of DW. They noticed this scaling issue and did adjustments so frost would be more strike oriented making armor pen a good secondary stat, and it would apply to many abilities like Obliterate, Blood Strike, Plague Strike and auto attacks. With this change, and the fact that frost was the DW spec, they added in ToT because whats the use of having a DW spec that only hits with the main hand weapon when they made this change to strike damage?
There was absolutely a DW spec pre 3.2 and they had to kill it because it was so powerful and you only needed to go 50% into frost and unholy to do a lot of damage. Just because it wasnt in that article, didnt mean it wasnt out there, doesnt mean it wasnt the best at the time, and doesnt mean many people were talking about it and using it. It was brought up in the discussions taken place during BFA when people like Vedist was advocating for 2h, saying it was the best and this that and the other all the while not providing anything that shows it was the best. They just stated it and walked off. Ill try to find the hybrid build for you.
Why do you care so much about 2H Vs DW?
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That’s what I’m wondering lol. Seems to care an awful lot for someone who isn’t immersed in the game…
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