Death Knight is Weak

Classes Death Knight
1

For years now Frost DK has been really weak, its survival is poor, its dmg is poor, it only does good dmg if not one shot during the burst, but Frost use to not need to base off just burst alone, it use to do good even without needing all CD usage. Obliterate use to do GREAT on its own and Frost Strike was acceptable, now they’re both joke spells, a meme if you will. I have never seen frost so low before, yeah at the end of Cata it did feel a little weak, but still pulled its weight, now you need a healer, you have to depend on burst, timing, and you still have to duel wield for it to be good.

2H is back, but its not good, we all got hyped for 2h’s return, only to be disappointed, yes there are great frost DK players now, but it just take too much effort, right now and it feels like the only class that takes a lot of effort to play. Blizzard doesn’t want DK to ever again be as powerful it was in MoP and WoD, but every other class right now just claps in just seconds if your not careful, even Unholy is a bit weak, but yet again its still a better option, Blizzard did an AWESOME job at killing Frost DK, its not enjoyable to play, its not fun, its tedious and more complicated to play than a MW Monk.

For example, WW monk has been broken since MoP, DH is still in some ways broken for its survival and insane mobility, Fury Warrior can’t accept death, Affliction Warlock is immortal, Demonology is hard to kill, Shadow Priest has powerful dots and strong survival, Rogues, Arms and its ridiculous heal reduction and dmg, Survival/BM/MM strong dmg good survival, Ret Paladin has strong burst dmg and and self heals and can still deal great dmg without need of CD’s, Frost/Arcane/Fire strong cc, dmg, survival (Maybe not so much survival for Arcane).

Blizzard needs to give Frost DK some kind of buff, they need it more than anything, its probably only good for M+, you rarely ever see it in PvP. Though our pleads tend to be ignored.

Thank you for reading, and I know some people are going to go against all that was said, but its still what I think of DK personally. If you agree cool, if you don’t that’s ok.

12 Likes
2

Its a DW spec. I dont know what people expect out of it, even back in cata Blizzard stated it was a DW spec that focused on spells and runic power.

I dont know why people got all hyped for 2h to return when it wasnt that great to begin with in the past other than WoD for a single tier.

Also, everything that you said goes against what basically everyone else said while still saying its garbage. People are saying its only good for raids and bad for M+, you are saying its probably only good for M+.

PvP is entirely a burst spec because of KM rank 2 and the stats that people get (mastery and versa). If you dont get crit, you dont get KM procs outside of a PoF window with Obliteration.

2 Likes
3

2H frost did some serious crits, it was even capable of bringing a player from 100% to sometimes if lucky 40% HP, it did more dmg than the DW and even out performed it, even at dps in dungeons/raids.

5 Likes
4

It did not out perform it. I dont know what dreams you guys are having but it was only on par or slightly better than DW in one raid tier in WoD. All that 2h had was Obliterate damage which doesnt make a spec, it makes an easy FotM spec which is all it was.

2 Likes
5

Well you did also have the ranged frost spell that was removed, that also did good dmg, wish that was never taken out, and I played a lot of DK, why I made this, I have never ran into a DW Frost that out performed me in any circumstance, I even beat them easily 1v1, out dps them, and with a 2H the Death Strike healing was way more rewarding and with 2h you could pull off some epic 1v4’s. So Idk why you are saying 2H was never good, I always found it great, I got to 1900 many times with 2h and was able to easily plow down any DW DK I ran into.
Maybe I was the one rare case’s, but you can find YT Videos of other’s living the same glory. But I will never forget Desiccated Grounds, best counter against the stun lock builds.

1 Like
6

My DK feels good in RBG’s. Pretty MVP’ish.

7

You played a lot of dk yet what Frost spell? Icy Touch? And apparently didnt know that DW had a completely different focus because of idiotic class design starting in MoP which removed part of the spec, yet scaled much better than 2h.

2h was a gimmick and playing against people or with people that had no idea what they were doing because the spec wasnt clear on how DW should be played, would have made it look like DW wasnt a good performer. Again, 2h was on part of slightly better than DW in one raid tier in WoD. That was Highmaul and BRF which were technically the same raid tier. HFC and DW took off like a rocket with the increased mastery which 2h didnt scale well with because all of its eggs were in Obliterate.

2 Likes
8

You are just all kinds of denial and negative, you obviously never played frost with 2 in Cata, MoP and WoD, it was really powerful, and was attacking faster than it should have been. I played it, I was there to see what 2H frost was, and I did try DW, it was really never that great. And only reason DW did great in HFC was it was forced onto DK’s at that point.

DW wasn’t that great then, and now frost is all round trash except for those few players that are up there in the ranks. Now Frost is only good for PvE and even there, Unholy is a better option.

3 Likes
9

You’re probably one of those people that played Frost back in WotLK when it was a tank spec and mainly was DW, and ever since just stuck with that, never even trying 2H for PvE, PvP, just stuck with DW cause it was “better” than 2H. Me, and a bunch of others were there, we did the 2H builds, they were amazing in PvP. And I bet you never even found YT videos of how it worked, what it could do…

3 Likes
10

Hey I’m here to smack you with my noodles, don’t disrespect!

Frost has been relegated to enh shaman status for the next three expacs, don’t get your hopes up.

6 Likes
11

This, tbh. :frowning:

I think MotFW should do MORE damage in contrast to increased damage to Obliterate.

But y’know. :man_shrugging:

6 Likes
12

What do you mean though? MotFW doesn’t do damage it just increases oblits.

13

And DW was better in each of these expansions. Regardless if you think it wasn’t better. It was. Just because it could “hit hard” with one ability means absolutely nothing.

DW had 2 runeforges when 2h only had 1, DW had more KM pros a lot more actually, its weapon crit mechanics are better and that’s why Icecap is only a DW talent currently. People had to play 2h in cat a though because 1h str weapons were rare. There was a total of 1 in firelands with a 1.4% drop rate and frost players complained about having to nerf themselves if they wanted to play frost.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Oh and in wrath it wasnt a tank spec in the way you are claiming. You could tank with it like you could in any spec, but it was a dps spec and a good one at that hitting just as hard as 2h blood with 1h agility weapons.

But go ahead and argue with history, youll just continue to be wrong.

14

What I mean is for MotFW, it should make Obliterate to do MORE damage instead of just increasing the damage of it.

Meaning it should increase its overall damage multiplicatively. Whatever increases the damage of Obliterate, also gets multiplied such as Koltira’s, Mastery or even Strength.

Of course, an appropriate tuning is in order but it would make Obliterate have a much more stronger scaling and make 2h Frost have Obliterate function as Cold Heart or Frostwyrm’s Fury.

EDIT: Honestly, MotFW should do more than just increase the dammies of Obliterate. As it is burstier and much more concentrated than DW, it should be fitting that it specializes the burst dammies aspect gameplay as is 2H frost. DW scales well with everything else. 2H should scale with specific abilities that fits its playstyle like Obliterate and FS harder than DW.

CH and FWF should be normalized between the two. Or don’t. :sweat_smile:

6 Likes
15

Ah okay makes sense.

16

Just getting back to the point of WoD at that point and then DW would need something. We should all know by now that if Obliterate is a spammable ability and it does a lot of damage, its going to get nerved baseline with what happened when KM rank 2 was introduced.

So what does DW get? I dont think 2h players should have any input into DW playstyle since they hate it not matter what is done to it.

I would rather have a spec that is easy to balance for Blizzard than to have complaints one way or the other.

I dont want Masterfrost back, unless you do DW completely different and have a steroid for Frost Strike, it work with KM, DW doesnt have Obliterate at all, 2h doesnt have Frost Strike at all, and go from there.

17

I think the objective for KM58 is to make Mastery a good secondary stat for 2h that would otherwise be a Physical Damage build. The problem with WoD 2h Frost would be the lack of scaling of Obliterate or thereof. Plus, Cold Heart and Frostwyrm’s Fury did not exist in WoD as well as RW was not as an important ability as it is now.

While they did nerf Obliterate to compensate this, it seems like KM58 does its job as intended for now.

2H should scale with Obliterate and Frost Strike harder than DW. Perhaps more emphasis on concentrated burst like Cold Heart or Frostwyrm’s Fury.
DW scales harder than 2h with everything else. Perhaps more emphasis on sustained hits like Remorseless Winter or Rime.

Mastery has always been and always will be a good stat for Frost. It will remain so for a very long time followed by crit.

5 Likes
18

So remove 2h because its causing problems with the spec. Its a DW spec. Not going to entertain 2h anymore because people just want to take more and more and more until they say DW should just be removed because now 2h is better because thats what you guys are trying to work towards and its blatantly obvious.

19

I mean isn’t that what you’re kind of doing on the flip side of the coin?

9 Likes
20

No, I want a good spec and 2h is ruining it.