I’m simply enjoying the fact after seeing all of these posts, they’re still confused as to why people react to them the way they do… This is next level head up rear.
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Who said im confused? I didnt say I was confused… where are you getting this bs from?
I think I was pretty clear in not caring of what people think of me. Why should I? Why should I care what some druid thinks about me that came out of nowhere to express their distaste of me and call for my ban?
Sounds pretty authoritarian to me… unlike people like you, I havent called for the ban of others based on what they say. Makes you guys look scared of something when you are trying to silence others.
Ultimate “I care” response.
Ban Kelliste 2022
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Imagine trying to submit a new revelation to a scientific journal but providing 0 proof of your experiments or research and just tell other scientists to believe you or go do your own research with no context of how you carried out your experiments.
There are so many variants that can affect the outcome. A big one is you not knowing how to play optimally. If you just log your tests you can actually prove what you are claiming is accurate. Otherwise its just your opinion, which has very little weight in reality.
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Who is this “you guys”?
Nobody can verify your own “values” without actual proof.
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Right, did 3 tests each with 2H vs DW. Realised I accidentally turned off my combatlogging so my logs didn’t save… I’ll redo the tests tomorrow and properly log.
I did log a trial run as I was warming up to the rotation. I had 90% uptime on Razorice, only dropping it at the very end → https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fW2ZVmyJbcBa7Dnh#fight=last&type=auras&start=1659761&end=1972101&spells=debuffs&hostility=1&ability=51714
For the damage, I got the following. No significant difference in the range I’d say?
2H
- 8.9k
- 7.8k
- 8.0k
DW
- 7.8k
- 8.1k
- 8.4k
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Biceps has provided a thousand times more help to the community than you. Log off and go outside mate instead of posting 99 times in a single thread.
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What was this a test of and what was the rotation and build? I’m wondering if it’s more efficient to run unholy/2hfrost for 2h loot or should I wait for two 1handers drops.
It’s was mainly to provide data for the variance in dps when running 2H. Kelliste was going on about verifying his “data” so I felt like it was appropriate to jump on the PTR and actually play the two builds.
DW Breath is the build in raids until we get 4-set, 100%. Once we get 4-set Obliteration becomes viable and I think it’ll be up to the ilvl of your weapons whether or not you run 2H or DW.
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You have the patients of a saint. I got tired of her garbage and put her on ignore. Got tired of all her garbage thank you for helping out the DK community. I was looking at dusting off my dk. Due to guild issues wont be raiding with him but anyway I appreciate all that you do for us.
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You do know that people dont just look at the submitted paper and go “yep everything looks good here” or “this is all wrong”. They test their findings and im not the only one that played with the frost tier set and found this stuff. How many people have to say the same thing before anyone goes out and plays with it as well.
Have you played with it? Has Biceps played with it? It doesnt sound like it since they have been talking about the sims, and the track record with the sims are abysmal to tell you the truth.
I have told you guys to GO PLAY WITH IT. The PTR is still up by the way. Just taking someones word because you see them as an authority is bad trap to fall into to the point you dont even question them.
There is absolutely nothing I can do about KM procs. Absolutely nothing. And its not like the priorities of some of this stuff has changed unless the damage is threw the roof.
Also, doing the tests the set was supposedly bugged anyways so you would see the PoF window is probably 100% Obliterate and GA damage. With the bug, that was playing optimally, you either got it rolling with Howling Blast or Frost Strike if you didnt get a KM proc right away, and it was a shotgun of Obliterates.
So the response would have been “you arent playing it properly” except at the time I was. You cant get an accurate representation when people who are building the sims are doing so as trial and error it seems, and with a bugged set.
Now, this isnt an excuse because the bug shows a lot between the weapons. 2h, good for burst aaaand thats about it. After that you are at the whim of the procs, and the procs suck. Are you disputing that. Are you trying to imply that I have control over when I get a KM proc? I certainly hope not, its not like gaming the rune system like DW had to do back in WoD.
Ive never said I play perfectly to an absolute T either. Everyone is human and there will be mistakes, but ive learned plenty about the 2h community, they look for any little thing to latch onto. So they can either dispute the claims through their own testing. Im not holding them to any higher standard than myself, or they can continue down this same road of trying to silence.
I have yet to actually hear anyone dispute what I have found. Can you? Biceps hasnt… can Vedist… oh wait he just wants me to be banned and always has.
So in reality, what you guys are doing, carries very little weight.
Dispute it, or just go back onto the discord if you want an echo chamber, it sounds like one anyways and I dont want to be a part of an echo chamber. I would rather someone actually have a disagreement and some back and forth, but none of you actually have that.
So dispute it. 2h consistency with the tier set is garbage. Its not like this type of thing hasnt happened before… in fact it happened in WoD with the best players out there. Do nothing different, and see a 40% difference in damage just based on procs that you either do, or dont get.
So if you know some way of forcing KM procs, Im all ears, otherwise the conversation isnt going to go anywhere.
Sure you can, theres an accurate sim isnt there? Just have to calculate the player without raid buffs, flasks or potions and just the class itself.
Other people tried to do it. Called me out, and ran a sim because “there is no way you are getting 10k Obliterate crits as DW with your stats”. Yet, I have, and I do. The biggest with DW was 17.7k with the 4pc at ilvl 242? Somewhere around there. Go run that with your sims. Highest I got with 2h was 20k. Are you saying you cant run a sim on that?
I dont know where to go to run these sims for having a 4pc and the gear I got. Do you know where to do it? I can get on the PTR right now, plug in the gear my Dk was wearing, and see what the results are.
You guys, and yes, you guys the same people I have been talking to this entire time, are wanting something acting like its the only way to verify.
I can tell you the gear I had/have on and you can go onto the PTR right now and play with that as well. In fact I was pretty up front about all of that in the first place.
who on azeroth asked
Ive had times where RI was up as well… but other times not. Thats what hit or miss means. Not the only one that experienced this either.
Do you have some way to force KM procs outside of PoF windows with Obliteration? I dont. Nothing I can do if the weapon just wont auto crit while having the 2pc active. That is something completely out of the players hands, unless you know something that no one else does.
Nobody can calculate YOUR “values”.
Learn to read, please.
Again, who is this “you guys”?
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Voices in her head?
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Your claim was about a big variance in overall dps, not about how many KM procs you get. KM procs will have an effect on overall dps, but they arent the only factor. For obliteration natural KM procs outside of PoF are a small amount of damage compared to the damage done inside PoF. So your rotation, timing of button presses, keeping RW up for 8% crit and everfrost, using procs immediately for optimal number of procs all play into your overall damage. Who knows what covenant/soulbind/leggo setup youre running. Could be a venthyr with Rage leggo trying to play 2h oblit and complaining its bad. We dont know, because you wont share logs.
If you have seen the discord you would know that its not an echo chamber at all. There are a lot of people who challenge things like you are trying to do right now…but then they follow up with logs. Then the general collective knowledge is expanded and changed, or they are shown what they did wrong to get the results they got.
The burden of proof is on you my friend. You make bold claims, you need to back it up. I trust Biceps because he offers all the data analysis and logs to back his findings. He has done this so often for so long, that I can trust him on his word much more than someone who only does WQ content and refuses to share any logs or data.
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yes, yes you can, thats what the sims can do and are supposed to do, calculate values based on your gear and “proper play”. So if I am giving out values that I am seeing, max Obliterate numbers, average obliterate numbers, you can actually verify those through a sim.
The answer to “you guys” is in the quote you just made.
Yes, DW is much more consistent than 2h. Thats what Biceps numbers shows as well.
His 2h numbers have a max difference of 1100 dps, and a low of 200 dps difference. His DW numbers has a max difference of 600 dps and a low of 300 dps difference.
DW is much more consistent is it not? Thats a pretty big dps swing for 2h. Thats at most a 13% difference in top and bottom. DW only has a 7% difference.
Come on, its blatantly obvious even using the numbers of an “authority figure”.
Not to mention I was in the neighborhood of his numbers as well. DW was much more consistent, and 2h had wild swings. I even left out the really bad 2h runs.
So, if you trust Biceps and his numbers, his numbers back up my claim. He didnt have a large of a swing as I did, but hes going to come back with some excuse for those numbers in an attempt to justify the swing.
Im not making some excuse either that “he doesnt know how to play DW” or some bs like that. Im not holding him to any higher standards than myself. So, GO PLAY WITH THE TIER SET. You can just go on an hit turnips if you want to. I dont care. If you see something different, you dont even need a log, just tell me what you found.
“Much more consistent” is simply not a claim you can make given the data. As I mentioned in the Sims, we expect the variance of 2H to be slightly larger than DW but not 2x as large.
The sample size in my test is not large enough to support a conclusion that the difference in variance is significantly larger. I’d expect as we add more trials in the data set, the variance of the two builds would converge and eventually end up where the Sims have them.
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