Deadmines or Diremaul?

The reason why people call Dire Maul DM, is because we run deadmines like 1 time, maybe twice if we are leveling an alt.

We run Dire Maul like 50 times. When chat is spamming for Dire Maul runs, we use DM.

What wing are you running?


Obviously they said it to you, what I’m saying is that it wasn’t a common thing at all.

At least, in my experience and I ran Deadmines a ton back in vanilla. I leveled about one of each class through there several times and never experienced anyone doing a partial clear. Well, not counting the times the group fell apart early for one reason or another.

It’s shockingly annoying haha. It’s especially amazing because servers were much more unique in their individual cultures, and I would imagine players would have recognized the server uniqueness over a decade later.

I’m not referencing those posts as the proper (read: only) way to refer to The Deadmines. I’m referencing those posts to show proof VC existed as a reference to The Deadmines and that it could be considered common (frequency is less relevant than the fact that people did, factually, refer to it as VC). I’m not sure how you extrapolated that I said The Deadmines could only be referred to as VC in vanilla. . . I mean, my first reply in this thread indicates asking a player in early vanilla why they used VC instead of DM. . . This would indicate more than one acceptable acronym…

Deadmines (original)

Revision as of 21:49, January 21, 2005 by WoWWiki-Oryx Talk | contribs

Also known as: DM, VC

Your other reply in this thread stated the guide was incorrect and the guide referenced by the Cabernet is a reference to the end of 2006 and not indicative of behavior over vanilla as a whole. You’re incorrect in your assumptions with the above references to January 21, 2005 (less than two months after release).

Most of your replies in this thread have indicated that anyone who referred to The Deadmines by the acronym VC didn’t play vanilla, played on private servers, and didn’t know what they were talking about. The evidence indicates the opposite of your suggestions, however. :upside_down_face:

Also, here is another reference point having the same annoying conversation with one side or the other stating they’re the authority on the matter and it can only be referred to as one or the other.

DM = Dire Maul

No DiM is Dire Maul. Deadmins was here before Dire Maul --Dotted 07:55, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

Hate to break it to you, but both instances were release at the same time. Dire Maul has been DM since Opening Day, just as Deadmines has been VC.

VC = Deadmines Edit

You are right, The Deadmines were here before Dire Maul, but there are so many more people asking for a group for Dire Maul than Deadmines, as all level 60’s know.

At least on my server we use DM/DiM --Dotted 14:35, 1 November 2006 (EST)

Usually when you mean Dire Maul you also say West North or East (I almost wrote south xP). And the Deadmines are often named DMs, because it’s ‘the DeadmineS’. But I don’t know what VC means. Van Cleef?

Edit: ok, it’s written there…–Frosti

On Staghelm on the Horde side it’s VC for Deadmines and DM for Dire Maul. Not so much anymore, but I kind of suspect it goes that way because high level Horde characters are more likely to be looking for a group for DM than low levels for VC. --Azaram 06:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I feel like I’m banging my head against a wall. I’ve provided factual proof of VC existing as a referring acronym to indicate The Deadmines. I did not state it is the only acronym for The Deadmines or that it is the only acronym that should be used. In the future, please remember to provide evidence for your claims instead of hyperbole.

Ah. I took your reply to mean that the situation didn’t occur to me and that I was wrong for bring my experience here haha.


It did vary from server to server. I played on two different servers, Medivh and Eitrigg. On Medivh it was always referred to as DM. On Eitrigg it was referred to as VC. Of course on Eitrigg when they were calling for VC it was just a few months before the burning crusade was released so take that for what it’s worth I guess.


There’s no doubt that some people use VC for Deadmines and that it was in some non-Blizzard literature of the time. However, it really only became a thing later in the game when Dire Maul was released and such.

My opinion is that using VC is silly because it breaks the usual pattern of using the initials of an instance. Especially when you have to include extra information to say DM for Dire Maul, you have to also say the direction like DME or DMN. That means any time you would see DM alone it would be Deadmines.

But each person should play the way they want to play. If VC works for you then use it, some people will be confused by it but they’ll learn or they won’t. The same goes for people who say DM.

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Yeah, but you insist that it was somehow this commonplace term that people used despite the people in this topic flat-out telling you that you are wrong.

People didn’t call deadmines VC often. They called it DM, same way they referred to wailing caverns as WC.

Thing is, even Blizzard refers to Diremaul by wings. Everyone refers to Diremaul by wings. I don’t have to prove that. It’s not really an anecdote to be honest.

And again, VC was used way more commonly on priv servers. So yeah, I think those people are coming from priv servers and claiming to be vanilla players.

My point hasn’t changed. People who think VC was the “commonly used term” are wrong.

No matter how you wish to argue this, I promise you, as someone who actually played vanilla, this is the way it was.

VC = Violet Citadel, which is either WotLK or Legion so why are we talking about it in Classic?


This is true


When the game first came out almost 4 years ago, Van Cleef was a level 24 elite with 4 level 22 elite adds. Whereas the rest of the instance was between level 15 and 21, hence very doable by a group of level 19-20 people, VC and his adds would prove to be impossible to beat in green/white gear when the game was 2 weeks old. Remember, there weren’t any level 60s to rush you or anything at that time, and other lower level people would be too busy levelling up to rush you, because those who got the game in the first few weeks, they are the ones who really want to see the contents of the game as soon as possible, or else they could have waited till later to buy the game.

This is why doing Deadmines and doing Van Cleef would be two completely different things. When people were looking for group, they had to specify if they were going to attempt VC, which means that they won’t be inviting anybody under level 21.

Over the years, VC had been nerfed several times and has become trivial. But the short form of VC to use in place of DM had to stick, especially after the introduction of Dire Maul in March 2005, which would cause confusion in chat channels.

Only the most old school of WoW players would know this. Those who refuse to call Deadmine as VC are just showing how not old school they are.

TL;DR: VC is a Deadmines run with the intent of killing VanCleef. Back when vanilla first launched, VanCleef was on a whole other level than the rest of the dungeon.

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i’ve never heard Deadmines called ‘VC’ until the Classic Beta started.

it was always called DM on my server and when anyone wanted a Dire Maul run, we said, “LFG DM North/East/West/Tribute”.


Yeah I only ever heard DM as deadmines, but I was exclusively horde until like, cata.

I’m unable to provide or locate frequency of use of term either way haha. I do remember when Dire Maul first coming out that people would often, on my server, refer to it just as DM or Dire Maul and not indicate the wing. . . You would have to message them hoping they wanted the same wing. I’m unsure of why players were like that. I usually used pretty descriptive language in mine. For example. LFG - DM:N - Healer or LF3M - DM:W - Tank, DPS x2.

I didn’t indicate frequency of usage for VC or DM at any point other than when responding later to indicate that it could be considered common. Common is ill defined, and there is no evidence indicating frequency of usage of DM vs VC in reference to The Deadmines for any time period from November 23, 2004 to January 15, 2007. Additionally, your wording choice here is different than your wording choice at


I haven’t suggested that people did use wings to refer to Dire Maul’s three separate instances. I would disagree that everyone referred to Dire Maul by wings, however. Everyone, in your response, implies that everyone at every point in time, referred to Dire Maul by their separate wings. This is factually untrue and would not be able to be proven.

You can assume that, but that doesn’t make the assumption correct. It’s not something I would immediately jump to or claim without having specific knowledge of that person.

Literally no evidence to suggest it was or was not a ‘commonly’ used term.

Wow. I’ve also played vanilla since open beta (read: prior to release). My account creation date for retail is November 23, 2004. I’ve provided links with evidence appropriate for the time period in question as to whether or not DM or VC could be used to refer to The Deadmines.

Word choice matters. Generally, it is advisable to avoid the usage of extreme terms like “everyone” or “no one” or “all the time”. There are rare or infrequent situations in which you can use extreme terms and maintain veracity of your statement.

Edit: "Literally no evidence to suggest it was or was not a ‘commonly’ used term. " When I said this, I meant to refer to quantitative data as opposed to qualitative data. The qualitative data regarding prevailing frequency of term usage in reference to Dire Maul is subject to significant bias and cannot be used to reach an accurate conclusion.

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It was originally DM for alliance only until Dire Maul came out and then it became VC. By then most LFG’s were for the (now new) DM as majority had levelled past the level 20ish dungeon. After a month or so naturally morphed into DM = Dire Maul + wing, and VC = VanCleef.

Later it also became VC for horde if you rerolled to play on the new wave of vanilla servers or made an alliance alt. By then for them DM had always meant Dire Maul. Not many ran over to the alliance side to do VC so it wasn’t in common horde vocab, we were obsessed with doing WC around that time.

I never played a private server.

Deadmines can be called DM or VC.
But i renember back in the day that there could be a confusion for new players when they wrote VC because some thought it was WC.
But if we are talking about Dire Maul then its DM east, north or west.
but you could do DM tribute run also.

The earliest known, within this thread, instance of VC referring to The Deadmines is presented above. Dire Maul was released March, 2005 (March 7th, I believe). Your claim is rejected evidence shows existence of the term “VC” referring to The Deadmines prior to release of Dire Maul.

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All I remember clearly is plenty of LFG VCs levelling as alliance post-DM’s release.

My post was purely anecdotal based on what I personally remember from 2 different servers. Who knows what else other players called it at other points in time. For plenty of vanilla players, especially horde, DM will always be Dire Maul and Deadmines will always be VC.

Ah! That wasn’t stated within your post.

When you did Dire Maul you always said which wing or tribute run.
Regarding Deadmines then people used both terms DM and VC.
For newer players it was confusing when you said VC as horde because many thought about WC.

It has always been DM for deadmines.

DM wouldn’t really work for diremaul since it is broken into more then one instance.