To answer the OP’s question, yes; Dazar’alor is supposed to be “revenge” for Teldrassil.
Does it satisfy anyone who isn’t 1.) Anduin 2.) Jaina or 3.) Anyone who isn’t a human paladin main? No, it doesn’t. And Blizzard is a fool for thinking anyone who’s had a passing at playing a night elf would be satisfied.
They should probably lay off drinking that Lawful Good Flavor-Aid, it can’t be good for you. And Night elves have never meshed with Lawful Good overdrive, no matter how hard Blizzard tries to turn them into discount high elves for their WC2 fetish.
I just want to say that while I come off as harsh on the Alliance in this thread, that is a combination of personal frustration, and the fact that yesterday I was pretty tired in addition to being irritated. I do not for a moment think that what has been given to the Night Elves is satisfying to them as a race, and I understand that even though the story beats don’t feel good to me as a Horde player, that doesn’t mean the Night Elves aren’t without valid concerns.
I worry about what further revenge would do to the Horde narrative, but at the same time I know that Dazar’alor and Undercity in many ways feel like salt in the wound to the Night Elf fanbase more then anything. Just look at the Kaldorei suicide squads in Nazmir for whom I understand the reasoning for, but also feel like kicking the race when it’s down.
In that capacity I don’t know what a good solution that would make both party happy is, beyond…I don’t know, throwing a brick through the window of Blizzard HQ?
It’s to late for them to ever make both faction’s players happy at this point. What would have worked is not targeting Night Elves like they always do when the Alliance needs to take an L in their story. Should have had Sylvanas slap Stormwind. Blight the Dwarven District or something. Just enough to rile up Alliance players without having a serious impact on player traffic through the trade district and Mage quarter.
I can’t speak for all Night Elf fans but anything short of growing a new World Tree over the ruins of Orgrimmar wouldn’t satisfy me at this point.
I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but considering the company it’s hard to tell if you were actually joking. If you literally accused him of being a murderer IRL for something he believes about the story, I wouldn’t be surprised because that’s how much the discourse in this thread has devolved.
If you want that to not happen, you should call out your fellow posters for telling people they are genocide apologists. Yes, even if they happen to have a blue background.
Edit: That said, I agree with the premise of your last post, and it’s not the first time i’v heard that sentiment. At this point the tribalism has gone into full gear, and the fanbases won’t be satisfied until the other factions obliterated, which only makes the fact that BfA seems to be gearing towards peace all the more frustrating.
At the same time the thread did start out with a certain tone to it, and people aren’t mind readers. If we keep caricaturing one another then yes, this forum will become a humorless place where everything is treated as an attack because half the time it actually is.
My goal was to start a discussion with people who aren’t blind Sylvanas fans that will find a way to legitimize everything she does with a “Yas Queen!”
I’m not sure if this was a discussion so much as a trashfire. At a point this thread became so toxic that I would imagine someone who wanted to have a discussion, rather then a shouting match or an echo chamber, would of bowed out at post…five? five if i’m being generous.
Treng, Akiyass, Zerde, all have a tendency to start idiotic forum fights with other people. I think there are a few more im forgetting, but those are the 3 big ones.
I suppose that’s fair, and it’s unfair to expect other people to curate their faction. The day has just been very tiring and I can empathize with folks who feel like they have been personally attacked at this point.
My only issue with Treng is he will say one thing and then contradict himself 5 minutes later. He’s not good at debating but thinks he’s god tier at it.
The whole apologist thing was silly to say the least and the thread could have done without it. While I think writing off the genocide as not mattering because “nameless NPCs” is disingenuous I don’t think comparing it to real world genocide is appropriate either.
At the end of the day I just wanted other people’s thoughts on how Dazar’alor isn’t and never will be sufficient “revenge” for Teldrassil looking at the events as the weight they hold within’ the world as a world and not just to players looking in from the outside.
All fair i’d say, but i’v derailed the thread enough. To get back on topic: Pretty much the only thing that would fix things at this point for the Night Elf playerbase is to kill Sylvanas and sack Orgrimmar, but I don’t know how you could balance that out from a faction narrative standpoint.
The thing that really baffles me more then anything is the raising of Night Elves into undeath and them actually going along with it, I don’t know what you do about that. Even if they turned on Sylvanas that wouldn’t negate that they were Warfront commanders(And a miniboss, don’t ask me why Summermoon is the miniboss and Sira is the commander because I don’t know.) and that is just…a permanent black stain on the lore that i’m not sure how you reverse.
I wish you could reverse it, because I don’t want them either. Their comments about suffering in this curse, about nothing being the same anymore, is just the Forsaken being pulled back into their pre-Cata victimhood state. I want to go forward, not regress to where we were.
My main focus is always Night Elves and I don’t think that will ever change sadly. But I do feel bad for the Forsaken that actually cared about the potential to not just be the “We’re undead so we’re evil” stereotype. As someone who wants the “Savagely Perfect Warriors” that impressed Grommash Hellscream so much it drove him to drink more Demon Blood I can sympathize with not wanting to just be another bog standard race.
Sira, Delaryn, and the other Undead Kaldorei I can never forgive Blizzard for no matter what and to be honest I hope they either canonically die again by the end of the expansion at the hands of their living Sisters and Brothers or are forgotten about and never brought up again.
What scares me is the idea that they’ll be freed from Sylvanas (I don’t believe that it isn’t some sort of mind control), and be re-accepted into the Alliance as either an Allied Race of undead Elves or as a way to bring in the Dark Ranger class or some of the other equally terrible ideas I’ve seen thrown about.
As far as Revenge goes I know deep down it’ll never happen. I fully expect the Kaldorei to be Stormwind Refugees until the day this game does actually die.
Again the Forsaken zone isn’t occupied. Absolutely nothing is stopping Sylvanas from sending out some sort of contingent to work on unblighting Undercity and rebuilding Brill. The land went from dead to scroched. It’s not like Forsaken need the ground to be fertile for them to live on it.
Teldrassil is gone forever and Darkshore was occupied with survivors captured and tortured.
But arguing this with someone like you who doesn’t actually care about the story is a waste of time.
From an undead perspective, I don’t mind the undead evil stuff so much because Cata was a mix of both. I stand by the motto of ‘Freedom is what you do with whats been done to you’ and that includes good and evil. To be frank I actually liked a lot of Cata because I felt that them becoming a bunch of hyper violent imperalists for both good, and bad, reasons was a good shift in direction after Arthas had died.
My main issue is that I…don’t really have any beef with the Kaldorei? I have more problems with the orcs on my faction then the Night Elves, the worst they ever did was serve as some goons for Varians attempted takeover of Lordaeron. I hate that the Night Elves are my primary antagonists because I don’t want to hurt your faction, I want to hurt the humans in Stormwind who we actually a history of warfare with.
In a way the Warfronts feel like insult to injury. The Forsaken have a smaller presence then the orcs in the Arathi, fighting over a part of the Lordanian continent while we are instead fighting you over Darkshore, a strip of land my people have no history with.
As for them being freed: Next patch has you looking for a ‘newly risen’ Dark Ranger in Trisfal Glades, it’s for both Horde and Alliance, this is concerning.