The South sold cotton to a lot of people because it was the major export at the time for the entire South. Europe had a surplus of cotton that allowed them to weather out the American Civil War without having to get involved.
The Blockade was set out to do more than just stop the export of cotton. The South didn’t have a large industrial base and needed to import materials which the blockade made neigh impossible.
The ideas behind the American Revolution was dangerous to European Monarchs exercising tyranny. The US didn’t run around involving themselves in the power struggles of Europe or elsewhere unless the struggle specifically involved the US directly until after WWII.
The US was able to grow to the point it became a major power because it was in North America and only had to contend with Canada and Mexico. We were ignored by European Powers by and large cause we didn’t involve ourselves in their wars. (Until it started reaching the level of the World Wars which was something the Founding Fathers didn’t foresee or even think possible.)
Europe sold the South munitions and arms, they didn’t supply them like a lot of Countries are currently doing for Ukraine. That was just merchants making a profit off of a war like they always have.
No European power ever recognized the Confederacy as a legitimate nation.
As to Europe thinking the US was a threat is off target. Most of the US’s major land expansions came as the result of Treaties like the Louisiana Purchase with France, The Alaska Purchase with Russia, and the Florida Purchase with Spain. Texas was added by Treaty after Texas had won independence from Mexico. (Fun fact: Texas is the only state to have it’s own Military. The Texan Governors have put the Texan Army on alert when the US Military is conducting maneuvers in Texas.)
The major expansion that was because of war was with Mexico over the American Southwest. Europe wasn’t involved in the Mexican-American War in any official capacity.
We largely left Europe to their own devices and Europe left us to our own devices. Until things reached the state of the World Wars.
Also, both North and South bought mercenary battalions from Europe, and these were in fact official soldiers.
Europe weakened itself so much that after the two world wars America took the lead as the strongest country in the western world. However, to say that America and European superpowers did not realize early on that they actually needed each other became clear very quickly after the independence wars is simply wrong.
Dunno, never really bothered too much to look into that type of thing. I think a lot of times it gets blown out of proportion or taken in the wrong way to support someone’s existing feelings. It’s like when authors talk about enjoying writing a villain, it doesn’t mean they’re rooting for them, just that they enjoy creating that character and the situations in which the hero will have to face that villain.
I feel like Afrasiabi just went too overboard, (and is he one of the WC2 fans?) and took things that might have worked if they weren’t dialed up to 11. Like the wrathgate statement, I feel like saying Sylv been behind the whole RAS coup thing, I could see her doing something like not caring about collatoral damage if it was the best way to take out Arthas. Everything is just overblown and hard to step down from.
Surrender meant forced Lightforging, refusal meant death. It’s kinda hard to paint the Draenei and Yrel as anything other than tyrannical in that timeline.
That didn’t stop them from benefitting from the quality cotton that they could by cheap due to slave labor, thus having a financial incentive to support the south with arms and munitions. Which many European countries did. It doesn’t matter if they recognized their sovereignty, they still supplied them with resources that was used to fight the Union.
This isn’t difficult to understand.
In times of great financial desperation for those European nations. You are really splitting hairs here, and much of this conversation seems kind of pointless. I am not really sure what you are trying to get at here.
This is kind of an oversimplification and also kind of has nothing to do with my point. What the US did is irrelevant, I am talking about how the rest of the world perceived the US. And in that regard, the US has always been a large and potentially powerful nation. Any World leader that would think otherwise would be foolish.
Pandarens, the dragonflights, the Tuskkar, the goblins(most of them), Ogres, etc
Like I was not the only one who made a comparison between the Cold War. We literally have an entry of Wowpedia talking about how the factions were in a cold war state. More importantly the faction was about two global super power whole while not outright going to war were fighting proxy wars and outright just being a pain to each other/could potentially destroy themselves/the entire world with their petty fighting.
yes, they were. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Elder_Ko%27nani https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Kelsey_Steelspark
Megs Dreadshredder says: The paperwork’s ready for you to sign, Marin. My people are just waiting on your decision.
Kelsey Steelspark says: Gosh, Mr. Noggenfogger, I know you wouldn’t want to damage your reputation as a neutral trade entity by forming closer ties to the Horde!
Megs Dreadshredder says: This is laughable. You know what it’s like trying to do business with gnomes.
Kelsey Steelspark says: Oh, oh, I know this one! It’s better than doing business with failed goblins that had to beg others for help!
Megs Dreadshredder says: Why you little irradiated…
Marin Noggenfogger yells: AGH! Enough! You two are driving me INSANE! Start getting some freakin’ work done around here or get the heck out of my town!
Actually the international effect of the American Civil War was pretty interesting.
The Prussians sent observers to watch the war unfold and see what could be learned. Their main takeaway was that trains had changed the face of war. Before moving men and supplies over even the most agreeable of terrain was a logistical headache and often went wrong. But that wasn’t the case anymore if you built railroads.
Skip ahead to the Franco-Prussian War and the Prussians lured the French out with a smaller force. Then, because of the trains, the entire Prussian army appeared basically overnight and the French where crushed. Paris was briefly occupied. The French where humiliated and furious.
Well cut to the end of WW1 and now France is sitting pretty on the winning team and had not forgotten that past humiliation. So they hit Germany hard with the Treaty of Versailles. Plunging the Germans into a state of chaos and poverty, and we all know what happened after that.
Vast oversimplification of course but world events have always rippled through the world. Hell I’d have to double check my sources but I recall reading about how this revolt in India caused huge damage to the East India Company’s bottom line. So this idea of taxing luxury items sent to the other British colonies got floated around.
Mightve heard of one of them. A tax on tea being sent to a certain 13 colonies on the other side of the world.
Bael Modan’s existence was to exploit resources and knowledge. This is a total headcanon from you that this was a time of expansion and Alliance pinky swears it won’t ever expand.
If you are going to make a claim. Back it up.
So Alliance has once again demonstrated they would go outside of their own borders to establish a defensive perimeter. You just agreed with that.
And right above you just agreed Alliance WILL and HAS expanded beyond their currently established borders to stifle the Horde.
You disagree with me in one breath and then provide the very examples of my claims.
Conclusion: Alliance has no problem expanding out to create buffer points against the Horde. So they can do it again.
Resources? The only thing the dwarves wanted from Bael Modan was artifacts from that stupid dig site. Knowledge? Sure. Resources? Hah, there wasn’t anything truly useful from a pratical stand point from that place. It was not about exploiting resources. Also, Jaina and Thrall had ended up with a ceasefire that more or less defined their borders.(hence why some of the humans were grumbling that orcs got some choice land during Cycle of Hatred)
Exceptions to the rules. Again, the entire thing happened because Garrosh was about to start a war. Had Garrosh not being planning his little war, the Alliance wouldn’t given a damn about the Barrens.(and considering everything that did happen I am not 100% it was the best choice)
To be honest, I am not sure entirely how it would work, but it feels like (completely in hindsight) that adding a race/class-based approach vs just Alliance vs Horde approach may have been more appropriate.
I don’t mean every race or class is hostile to each other, but if I make an Orc Warlock I might want to be in the Black Harvest, or the Horde, or neither. If I make a Night Elf Druid, maybe it’s Cenarion Circle, or the Alliance, or neither and just be part of a “Night Elf” faction.
I understand how ingrained red v blue has become, and it doesn’t mean there can’t be Horde vs Alliance or Cenarion Circle vs Kirin Tor storylines, it just feels like players would have a bit more ability to make the character they want and then join the group that they want as well.
But that’s not a wholly fleshed out idea so there’s probably a ton of issues.
I already gave you the fact. By Cycle of Hatred both Ogrimmar/Theramore had established there own borders(borders both of them were not particularly happy about but still).
It was entire speech of Varian about how the Alliance were establish nations. Again, aside from maybe Lordearon and attempt at some defensive positions the Alliance doesn’t care or need Horde land!
Coming from a hard core Kul’Tiran RPer, Daelin was/is not right:
Daelin was going off information that Orcs were mindless Demon spawn and ignored Jaina insisting otherwise. His best course of action would of been to monitor the Horde for agression or attempt diplomatic relations. In the end it was really the Forsaken that caused the most damage to the Alliance and Horde.
Making the Forsaken as Scourge 2.0 is what really caused all of the bad faction conflict writing.
Bael Modan has ZERO to do with Theramore.
They were there for Ironforge and League of Explorers interests. There is zero indication that Jaina or Theramore was involved.
Regardless of your claims we have evidence of the Alliance expanding outwards to make holdings designed to exploit the land for resources as well as stifle the Horde threat.
This is a fact.
I always thought that part was poorly written; regarding the Draenei, you have the Draenei seeking refugee on Draenor, which initially seemed peaceful but turned out to be a hostile, dangerous world where the law of the land (literally in regards to the Breakers) is “improve or die”.
Then the only race they managed to have any friendly interaction with - everyone else they encountered (Saberon, Gorian Empire…) was hostile from the word “go” - becomes the kill crazy, racial supremacist Iron Horde, giving the Draenei a choice where surrender means brutal enslavement and refusal means death.
After going through all that (which the story pretends as if it never happened), no wonder Yrel’s people and the Naaru concluded the only way to tame this deadly world was a bit of “Lux Vult/Aldaw Akbar”.
Also, despite helping the Alliance, since they stayed in their own timeline, I never considered the AU Draenei part of the Alliance.
Beal Modan was built by Dwarves of Jaina’s expedition. They were there initially as part of her expedition. Don’t forget, she brought people from every Alliance race with her initially. I’d also point out if Jaina did not tacitly agree/support it, it would have fallen to the Horde easily.
Again, they were not exploiting resources in Kalimdor. The Alliance has all the resources it needs in their home territories. Usually any resources they do take are used for the very war efforts against the Horde!
There is literally little if any resources the Alliance cares for in Horde lands. Hence, why embargoes from Alliance lands(like the ones in The Shattering) would hurt the Horde more then the Alliance.
If it had been presented as a retaliation for the Iron Horde it would have made sense re: justification, but they marched on the Frost Wolf Clan and killed Durotan. I think the intro was very specifically aimed to continue presenting The Light as an antagonistic possibility so we can point to moments like this as evidence when we actually do get some form of Light invasion.