That is a gross… absolutely disgusting misunderstanding of the situation.
Who were the factions during the Cold War? USA and USSR? Capitalism and Communism? East and West?
Where is the “High King” and “Warcheif” equivalent?
Go right ahead. Explain how the Warcraft faction war is a fantasy mirror of the Cold War.
During Legion, I lead Nelf-only RP events that would bring in more than 100 participants.
BFA, I was lucky to get 5-10.
I have been playing since Vanilla WoW… Leading RP events since late Cata. I know the difference between natural drop-off, and a mass exodus of players.
Abit, I mean there are times when they have managed to suceeded. Like for example the draenei. For the most part it did get a relatively satisfying conclusion to the story build up.
Another example would be Jaina. As much as her story had a tendency to zigzag it did ultimately end with her being the leader of her home kingdom.
No, this is me making a comparison of a scenario that is as close/relatively close to how Warcraft’s plot functioned. That you have two sides that did not like each other but also weren’t(at least in Vanilla to Wrath) interested in all out war.
It is literally two factions that do not like each other. And people have refer to how they want to go back to Vanilla’s “cold war” between the two! I am not sure how much more clearly I have to talk about how the comparison is about broad strokes. Also, It goes without saying that you asking for 100% similar real world anology for a fictional storyline is just ridiculous.
She “earned” it by actually doing what had to be done and going back to her home(even though she effectively had a death warrant on her) and ultimately saving her home.
Given that you have a double standard about responsibility, it totally isn’t. Its something you said before only to go into full evasion mode on Arthas have responsibility for the consequences of his actions, the same thing you are assigning to the Horde.
The problem isn’t the one time thing. It’s a double standard that continues. If Blizzard can show they have any development for the Horde other than the villain bat…
The thing is, as I’ve said, I genuinely do have fun with the faction conflict. Or at least did.
And from a game design perspective I can see the benefit of making the factions distinct species. You can tell who’s what at a distance just from the shape of a silhouette and how it moves. Every race has an immediately recognizable animation and shape.
At this point though that’s not really the case anymore and it wasn’t too hard to get use to it. Although I did lose a match once because I thought I was fighting a Nelf Warrior at first, and only realized it was a Zandalari Paladin when the bubble went up and the regeneration started.
Still remember both my partner and I initially being very confused and that few seconds of befuddlement meant I didn’t drop Mass Dispell quickly enough. But it is a mistake I only made once.
So at this point I don’t see why you couldn’t have any race join either faction.
And as for the conflict itself just have it in the background for players who like PvP. Vanilla and BC did this and it worked fine. I don’t know why they insisted on making it a main plot point.
Obviously its not going to have a satisfying conclusion. Things have to return to the status quo for there to be a game. So a stalemate where we learn to just walk away and only stab eachother on the weekends in moderation is the only possible result.
So keep it in the background. Contrive some reasons for a Flashpoint here and there for new BGs and throw in some WPvP objectives in a couple of regions. Simple as.
But it is not close.
You can’t say “These two factions came into a conflict and therefore it is just like these other two factions that came into conflict”
It is apples and oranges, and you are saying “They are both fruit”
Do you… Not know what the term “Cold War” means?
I think this is fine. What I don’t like is faction identity superseding racial identity.
I would have less of a problem with the Night Elves being members of the Alliance if the cultural differences between Western and Eastern Alliance was showcased more.
It drives me up the wall to see Night Elves in Stormwind uniforms. Using Dwarven/Gnomish Technology. Being tolerant of the Arcane as if the last 10,000 years of their history was pointless.
But what I was saying was the world was at a point in time divided into two major camps and having Azeroth be in a similar position is not an impossibility. Nothing more and nothing less then that.
Because that is true. They are both fruit and I was never saying apples are oranges. All I was saying is there are similarities between two. It was never suppose to be 1:1 comparison, just a comparison for that specific attribute.
Yes, and I am saying that it is a similarly of our world to the world of Azeroth, that it has experienced a state of cold war between the factions because of their history/ideological differences.
It wasn’t though. You have to understand that the Cold War was a continuation of something that began before WW1. It wasn’t just two camps. The Rivalry between the USA and USSR was just the the main players in a conflict that is lingering in American media and a part of a conflict that is much more broad and nuanced than you are implying.
Sure. The American Civil War is a conflict between two factions too. One that is no isolated to only the USA. Many European nations supported the South because cheap cotton and a Divided US was a win-win for them on the Global power hierarchy.
But it is a totally different beast. You cant just point at a war and say “See… realistic.”
Clearly not. A Cold War is a war of propaganda, espionage and ideology. A war waged with measures of conflict other than meeting each other in battle.
The fans wanted something like that, but we got BFA instead. It is not the same and not nearly and interesting.
I don’t really mind say the Forsaken in Orcish armor. One of my saved transmogs was the red version of Lord Godfrey’s outfit with the Orcish Grunt pauldrons, gloves and a Horde insignia belt buckle.
But sometimes they look silly. Male Forsaken run the risk of looking hilariously top heavy in the bulkier mail and plate the Orcs favor.
My Belf Blood Mage (Destro Lock) on the otherhand would not be caught dead wearing anything that crude. He had a Red Horde outfit as well but it was fine silk.
“Must you people solder spikes to everything?”
So I think it can work for some races but not all. I do admit I always found it weird seeing Nelves in the heavy iron plate armor of SW guardsmen.
It just looks weird. Be like seeing Samurai armor on a British grenadier. Like man use what you can get I guess but when they said shock and awe they didn’t mean as a fashion disaster.
And I am not talking about that nuanced part. Heck, most people would not care or even deal with the minutia that you are thinking of. Most people would care that it was two broad group that were capable of equally destroying each other over ideological reason and had conveniently divided most of the world into a red and blue camp(fitting considering Azeroth is effectively divided by the same color).
Except most of the world was not involved. The cold war managed to touch far flung nations in Africa and Asia and Latin America. It was an actual global affaire and not just a western one. Not to mention the victory or defeat of one of the other would broadly impact/has as drastic an impact to various nations governments/economy even way of life.
Both sides have spies in each others capitals(Rise of the Horde/Elegy, we even have a goblin who is mostly used because no one would notice him in Horde lands). We have propaganda/ideological battles between the two especially with trying to convince neutral parties to shun the other/aid them. (Elder Konani comes to mind)
Because at that point it was no longer a cold war and was a full out war. To say it isnt as interesting fails to note that MoP was actually a fairly interesting expansion(not to mention reversed the decreasing sub trends in Cata) and showed that the factions wars can work as a main focus.
But it is important. Especially if you are going to use it as a point of comparison.
“If my Grandmother had wheels, she’d be a bike.”
It doesn’t work.
Most of the world wasn’t involved in the Cold War either. There are 195 countries in the world. Some more than 20 were involved in the Cold War.
Also, I think you greatly misunderstand how much the rest of the world was involved in the American Civil War. And Wars in General.
All gathering information to service a conventional war. NOT to service a war of propaganda and diplomacy. It is a completely different war being waged.
No we have not. Everything we have done has been to service a conventional war, gathering clear, tactical advantages over the enemy. We have never seen the Alliance intentionally spread misinformation about the Horde, or attempt to cause civil unrest within their cities. Or vice versa.
It was never a Cold War… A Cold War never took place.
You are simply over thinking/focusing on the wrong thing. Again, the comparison is a very specific thing about the cold war, which is that this was mainly two group that were opposing each other on a truly global scale.
Which is also the case for Azeroth. Not every major faction is involved and plenty of races/nations remain neutral to it.
As for how involved everyone was, maybe not everyone was directly involved but everyone did feel its presence and nearly everyone know the potential consequences of it all.
Again, both sides were waging wars of propaganda/diplomacy, especially with regards to neutral parties.
Bare in mind that Dev Watercooler was from Cata, one of the worse x-pacs for balancing material between the Alliance and Horde.
So much of the Alliance old world revamp content rolled out unfinished or bare bones rushed and then it was left as the default starting Alliance experience until Chromie Time made it optional.
Also even in his faction pride examples in his essay, they were all horde examples.
The North blockaded the South for the duration of the civil war as part of the “Anaconda” plan from General Winfield Scott.
No European nation ever recognized the Confederacy as a legitimate nation and most certainly did not enjoy cheap cotton due to the blockade.
Also the US wasn’t a major world power worthy of concern at the time. The US had a non-intervention policy that had been set by George Washington and that took the madness and destruction of World War I to break.
Even after World War I European nations ignored President Wilson’s ideas for post world war peace for Europe. The United States didn’t take to being a World Leader until after World War II.
Right… because the South was selling cheap cotton to Europe… if they weren’t, there would be no point to a Blockade…
That didn’t mean the US wasn’t perceived as a threat by other nations. A new, large and ambitious nation, who’s revolution already inspired the overthrow of several monarchs in Europe.
