Cyclone is kinda busted

PVP Arenas
141

“i would play shroud”

I literally just got done saying why shroud is garbage. The other team either waits it out (only lasts 30 secs) or saps/dispells/spellsteals it away.

“no but you just have to rush in right away and have a super coordinated team that just automatically knows what to do… in a solo shuffle…”

And this still doesn’t address the hypocrisy that evo healers have to be forced into a pvp talent but resto druids can’t be bothered with the same treatment (as was mentioned earlier when i suggested that resto druids should be forced to take a pvp talent that buffed their cyclone to “normality” after getting a much needed nerf).

“if the other team has purge then i’d hang back”
And this leads to the “waiting out shroud” strat that i mentioned. The other team just avoids a fight by running circles around pillars. I’ve seen this happen all the time.

“you need to push in with your team” which then gets me yelled at for being in cc/interrupt range. (although incidentally this is normally thhe strat i go with since there isn’t much option with preservation evokers. Verdant Embrace and short range heals keeps me in danger range for much of the fight and there’s not much i can do about that. Even when i try to run back to pillar after verdant embrace, it’s already too late by that time and i have to sit through a cc+root chain.

“use your kick”
it’s on a 40 sec cd, but yes, i use it all the time. But there’s no stopping a druid that is determined to get to me. I can’t landslide him because he’ll just shapeshift out of it. I can’t even sleep him in time before he gets a stun off and cyclones (you seem to be unaware that it’s rarely just a cyclone, it’s 90% of the time a stun into a cyclone, thereby making “kick” not an option most of the time).
The only option that would work is deep breath, which is a 2 mins cd, and delays the inevitable for 4 secs (at which point the druid has caught up to me again, stunned and cycloned me).

Dragon knockback has shorter range than druid knockback, i have to be right up on the druid to knock him back, which by that time i’m already stunned and cycloned.

“shroud is 1.5 mind cd so just cast it again”
you forget we’re only 30 secs into match at this point. Druid is GETTING his stun and cyclone chain off, thus forcing a trinket. All this stuff about knockbacks, kicks, etc. is constantly working under the assumption that he’s JUST cycloning, but the norm is for a stun into a cyclone and there’s no way of avoiding that stun for long.

“not to rating shame but lemme rating shame”
I’ve gotten to 2000, not sure why people keep saying 1700. And cyclone is the only thing in the game that i have an issue with. I don’t mind when a holy priest Stuns and then Fears me, because at the very least i can heal through it with communion (assuming he doesn’t just immediately mind control). But with cyclone i don’t even have that option.

I brought up that i played 7000 games because someone was claiming that i didn’t have any experience about what i was talking about. Now the goalposts are being moved and it’s that i don’t have dps coordinating with me at elite levels of gameplay on voicechat to coordinate around the one spell that constantly wins against me.

“a single spell from a single spec”
well technically all druids have this, so it’s not just ‘a single spec’, but i’m okay with balance druids and feral having cyclone since they absolutely require it for survival. But resto druid already has an insanely large toolkit and strong heals and the best mobility in the game that it doesn’t need this op spell.

“i’m about done engaging with you”
Then don’t engage with me. Just keep being blizzards favorite class and pretend you’re better than others due to your own skill.

142

Monks beat me more consistently, but Druids are miserable to play against. Cyclone is the bane of my existence as a Shuffle healer.

143

“use shroud at beginning of match”

other team plays running around the pillars for 30 secs until shroud wears off

144

It is incorrect that rdruids only recently became popular (fotm) after the treants change? Is that what you’re saying. I know you see them a lot now. Regardless, answer me this. What number are you on the pvoker ladder? Follow up, why?

No, you’ve learned it’s annoying to be cc’d and you’re still learning how to play against Druids, evidently.

lol oh. My. God. You have the textbook mindset of someone who will never ever get better or improve in this game. You just shoot down any options literally at your disposal because it’s simply not the way you want to play or be played against. You don’t think utilizing an existing pvp talent to help niche situations isn’t different than stripping an intrinsic fundamental of a class and then removing a talent entirely just ti get them back to square one? How ignorant.

For shroud, how many classes can purge freely? You only need it until the druid comes out anyway according to you. Or get combat before the rogue can sap? Wait?? 30s? I’d love to see your games man. Like you’re very, very obviously making huge mistakes that can likely be rectified yet you’d rather cry on here than do anything about it. You don’t even have to take shroud, it was one example I figured would be useful in lower mmr games. You can also, simply ask the team to stop the follow up clone. Or literally sit the cc, it’s the START of the game. Everyone has every button. Surely you can react appropriately.

Shroud is hard to use effectively? Know when it’s supposed to be used? When you need breathing room to push up for some reason, be it cc or positional heals or simply to swap pillars, etc. If shroud is risky because being kicked is a thing, how is being kicked on cyclone, an rdruid’s only school, not also punishing? And you talk of hypocrisy. Let me guess, “hots are still ticking when they’re locked out!” Right? Are they ticking on him when you hard swap him without being able to bark or skin or overgrowth or anything? And aren’t you also a hot based spec?

Only to ratings over 1,000 higher than you, literally. I’m well aware of how it works. “Shuffle is too hard because I only get to play with literal monkeys” is such a crap excuse used constantly by other literal monkeys. The one redeeming things about shuffle is that it is, by and large, an even playing field for the ladder across many games. There are countless people above you. Figure out why.

Don’t bother responding with retorts like this. You and I both know this is bull. You’re not unique or special. Again, there’s thousands of people higher than you. Do they not play with these people? Do they have 6 trinkets or something?

It’s different. It can’t be used while cc’d it can just be used to avoid it. Its healing is also weaker and other Druids can also just clone the dps to avoid healing from it. In case you were unaware, Druids fight other Druids too.

Going to stop quoting every stupid answer about the classes kit. They’re different classes. Answer me this, when evokers were used in the awc, or any tourney setting, why were they used? Druids have had clone forever. Literally. Why are they not simply the only healer ever seen?

They don’t need to is my point. It’s not fair to rdruid any more than it is dps specs. The o lanky time rdruid seems egregious is in 2’s because they can lifebloom the whole team and play absurdly safe and go for risky plays with less stops. In 3’s and shuffle it is simply not an issue and all issues you have are a byproduct of playing poorly. This is just fact.

… what? Lmao. I’m literally quoting you. Not making them up like you are. Also, you’re using disingenuous wrongly here.
I’m not the only one who notices…

^^

I don’t doubt it happens sometimes but to sit here and try to convince me that you’re just up against it with your hands tied is ludicrous. Just quit then because you clearly have no desire to improve. You make no mistakes and rdruid is unwinnable. Sucks.

I don’t, at all. It does need things like clone though and if you removed clone from the game you’d see zero Druids. Maaaybe in MLD.

3 Likes
145

waits 10 seconds to predict when the rdruid is in position for rake clone and uses shrouds before that

collectivley pushes in as a team and start pumping damage and garunteeing you get the first go

146

You don’t want to hear options, you want to whine. I, and everyone else here, should honestly just leave you alone.

See you likely just press massive defensives every single time you get cc’d. You already stated you trinket the first clone and you probably communion the very next follow up. People here could legitimately super help you if your mentality wasn’t such crap. It’s also weird to say “assuming he doesn’t just immediately mind control.” Why wouldn’t he? And if so, how is that different than clone then? Are priests also OP?

You’re taking it too literally. You have “experience” but you don’t have any experience. You can’t possibly understand the game very well with the track record you have. You just can’t. It doesn’t matter if you queued a million times.

They’re not actually. Arena is a team game after all and you’re not going to win every single round. You just aren’t. But if you’re still this low after seven thousand games then you have to accept that the issue is likely you. The other dps are probably bad, but the other healer also has to deal with them. People climb. You have more agency than you’re willing to admit and frankly, you’re going to be stuck there a long time until you figure that out.

147

If you and your 2 partners can’t catch up to 2, or even 1 other player for 30 seconds straight at the beginning of a match, then you have far worse problems going on…

3 Likes
148

Woah, how did I miss this?
This whole thread’s basic conclusion is: Maybe Cyclone max duration could be nerfed by 1 sec. The current state of Boomy justifies having it mostly as it’s always been, though, because of how absurdly every class is oneshotting this expansion. Boomy has ramp-up high maintenance damage with relatively weak castables required to pool for burst windows. It also has crucial CC some classes can get out of easily without spending valuable cooldowns or trinkets. It’s also slower and squishier defensive cooldown-wise compared to other casters. So yes, we need cyclone, though I’d be happy with some defensive buffs tbh. I’ve always wanted more shields for Boomboom. Barkskin’s new talent was a great start, but I’m thinking the Faerie dragons followup talent should have a defensive option, say, 5% shields like mage mirror images up to 3. Make them more deterministic, like spawning after cycling 40 or 50 AP astral power. There you go. It’s honestly weird how we don’t have defensive talents in our spec tree.
I’m gonna submit this as a suggestion.

1 Like
149

This is kind of your MO but the discussion is more geared towards clone, rdruid using it specifically and not really about boomy. I assume he’d tell you the same if he bothers to respond.

150

The irony here lol.

There are like 5 specs, high balling, that actually can 1 shot. This meta is so slow, it’s amazing how bad players think it’s fast.

151

D: …Ouch! I might only play with RL friends and their alts in 2/3s under the influence on a friday night, but I don’t think I’m THAT bad. I think getting Legend early each season at least takes some game knowledge…

152

It’s a powerful talent and all the top evokers take it into some matches.

Yeah but not your green and fire spells which is what you heal with.

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153

LMFAOOO

bro is 7,500 rounds deep into the 1700 bracket writing paragraphs on the arena forums about class balance :skull:

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154

As Dilly would say

Incredible.

2 Likes
155

how is this guy real. Its like seeing a unicorn!

1 Like
156

honestly with feral getting free dmg with every cyclone they should revert “fast” clone back to .5 second cast even out the playing field

157

I feel like getting raked > spam cloned in shuffle is one of the first stupid checks the mode throws at your team.

Weirdly enough as a Pres Evoker you’re gonna be stacked with your team anyway, clone in the opener shouldn’t be free

1 Like
158

No, they should just not give ferals the combo points from the free frenzies.

159

Fair enough to make this comment, but then I’d think that you would at least support reducing the duration, considering they did this to just about every other comparable cc in the game (e.g., Polymorph has existed for a longer amount of time than cyclone, or Blind, etc., and both are intrinsic to mage and rogue, respectively, yet those were changed).

How long something has been in the game isn’t really a strong defense for why it shouldn’t be touched.

There is no rating requirement for having an opinion, it doesn’t matter if you’re not elite. I agree with you that cyclone is in need of a tweak, and players that are much better than me do to.

While I’d personally prefer cyclone to be considered magic, I understand that that would come off as extreme. I agree, shaving 1 second off the duration would be a great step in the right direction (e.g., I think most players would be happy with this, and it doesn’t really change how rdruid plays).

160

They would need to severely buff moonkins if they shaved even a second off cyclone

1 Like