Before any of the druids start defending it and saying fear and other cc is the problem because of pathing and this or that. Can somebody tell me what the actual counterplay is other than interrupting without being baited into precog or mass dispel. Why does repentance and hex have a cooldown but this godforsaken spell doesn’t. At least with sheeps and fears you can dispel them and determine if its safe to dispel even with a UA up if its an aff lock. I just healed into moonkin r druid and it is the literal worst feeling having to deal with this. As a side note I got a friend of mine into the game and he tried healing as he normally plays support. He had a really hard time pushing playing disc and rsham. He tried druid and literally just rotated clones and he hit 2.1k his first season. Asked him what was so much easier and he said it just comes down to clone being able to shut down 2 targets almost every game. Seriously can we have an unbiased discussion of how this is actually beyond busted especially with precog being a thing.
Hpals constantly complaining on here about everything despite being the best healer in the game, pretty funny every time I see it.
hpal has gotten nerfed quite a lot and most of it is for pve reasons and it’s also spilled into pvp. I’ll be the first to say healing was overtuned with the rework like many things are and it’s gotten toned down. Druid healing isn’t a joke either. You can literally press your hots and control the game if you’re good. Like I said lets have an unbiased conversation here. Almost everything in this game has some sort of counterplay. I bubble or a mage iceblocks and mass dispel is a thing. Those are fairly large cooldowns that are up probably once a game or twice with cold snap on frost. Now lets look at clone. It is literally spammable and the only counter play is trying to kick it likely getting baited and it going off anyways. If you don’t have a shadow priest on your team you only have your trinket or a major defensive from your team. Now imagine 2 druids shut down 2 people in your team. What do I do I cant dispel I cant do anything in fact I might as well just sit around for the 6 seconds. Oh but wait If i get cloned I should use my 1 minute blessing of sacrifice and get a free shield right. Believe it or not thats not going to work every time and more often than naught you are bashed into a clone. I dont mind moonkin or even feral having access to it. Its the fact that a healer can literally shut down your team and there’s such little counterplay once it goes off that its too punishing. I get it man you main a druid and you don’t want to see your beloved spells nerfed but lets be honest it should be redesigned to the point that there is actual counterplay around or it requires some form of setup.
Currently resto druid is the best healer in the game. Hpal is better in some matchups for sure like vs aug teams with firebreath purge but overall rdruid teams can live forever.
Think best healer goes to rdruid with hpal on their “roots” lol
Thank you this is what I have been saying over and over and everybody keeps saying hpal is so busted like its week 1 after the rework. Resto is way better in my opinion into a lot of matchups. Especially against hpal. All I am saying is I want to be able to dispel the damn thing or have it break. It’s ability to just completely shut somebody out is busted given the fact it can be spammed. Make it have a cooldown like repentance or hex even and that would be a change in the right direction.
cyclone is also the only cc that can be used wrong and stop people from getting kills it has its own risk when you use it
and why that person had so much success on rdruid is probably because rdruid is a jerk it healer hot and do nothing good rdurids hot then go make it so the other healer cant just jerk it
but good hpals can go for hoj reps all game and you will easily go up 100-200 cr
80% of hpals i see do nothing all game and pray the dps land a kill
if you’re playing at high mmr and especially in comms most people even those who are likely very intellectually inept wont use it at the wrong time (its really easy to discern when to use it imo). I’m sorry but the general pros outweigh the cons by a huge margin. You’re right though it can be timed incorrectly but outside of 1500 mmr I have not seen it.
In regards to the second part of your comment - if you’re referring to my friend I mentioned (at least I think it is) - you’re right. He had a basic learning curve but once he found out he can deny the enemy teams goes and set up win cons it was much easier than any other healer. You’re right though HoJ rep is a good win con but Hpal has to either presac to push in use freedom to not be slowed and stuck in a bad spot etc. I would argue Rdruid has a lot more potential to set up win conditions and deny damage output. Lets say you get a clone on somebody during their CDs - if they want to continue to dps they have to use a trinket. I hoj a dps the other healer can dispel it.
This shows how little you know about how it works.
you can find so many examples of this very thing happening, because when a druids runs out of damage they will cast clone simply to slow down the game to get a new CC chain going and let them keep the pressure
So let me ask you this then. Do you as an unbiased druid main think that cyclone is perfectly fine as it is with the only counters being trinket / mass dispel / or an interrupt. That is in the hands of a player who knows what they’re doing its not significantly better than any other form of casted CC in the game like hex sheep fear etc?
You don’t think it needs a cooldown associated with it or have the potential for it to be dispelled. You think that just because you might potentially cast it at the wrong time its perfectly fine the way it is. I’m just curious because I can say the same thing about literally every other casted cc.
i mean im fine if they nerfed cyclone by a second or two but they would have to re balance boomkin and feral because they are hard carried by cyclone moonkins throw 3 50k starsurges then we are out of dmg and spam cyclone for the next 20-30 seconds
our casted dmg is so poor its better to spam cyclone
thats why cyclone cant be nerfed
putting a cd on cyclone is the most fried thing i have heard tho
Honestly my issue isn’t even moonkin having cyclone or feral. (btw side note check out feral aug its one of the most insane comps ive seen). It’s the fact that resto gets it and the counterplay to is is almost non existent especially with other casters on the team whose abilities take priority to interrupt (think chaos bolt glacial etc).
that is purely because pressing cyclone as feral gives them way to much Fing dmg because a pvp talent that needs to be removed or have sum type of cd
Yeah I don’t have a problem with moonkin or feral its mostly resto druid having access to it. I should have stated that in the initial post. This is mostly from a healer POV and the feedback I got from somebody whose first season was DF season 2.
I’ve been trying to say that as well. Cyclone should be made into ‘magic’ so that it’s dispellable.
Hpal and rdruid are both really strong right now, each better than the other depending on the situation.
While that’s probably true, cyclone alone isn’t really going to make that difference, e.g., he probably would have struggled on rdruid before the new treant talent. The treant talent/npcs doing 15-20+% of rdruids healing is probably a bigger contributing factor to his first 2100 than cyclone is.
Imo just make cyclone magic, nerf hpal sac a bit (e.g., at least add 30 seconds to the cd), then call it a day with these specs, and start incrementally buffing the other healing specs until they are on par with hpal and rdruid.
I like this take I think if it was able to be dispelled or break like another form of cc it would be fine.
it should be 5 second duration at this point. really weird how all druid stuff has remained pretty much completely untouched except when they forgot to reduce roots/beam or w/e.
I don’t even think its the duration its the fact that such little counterplay exists for it. The only argument ive seen is that the druid can do it at a bad time but the same can be said for any other cc. If anything any other cc is almost more punishing if cast by a healer as they have a cooldown associated with them and can break very easily. Hex / Rep / Psychic Scream etc.
I’d also like to point out all of those can be dispelled. Hex is more unique where its a curse but there at least more than answer in the fact that shamans mages and druids can insta dispel it.
all of what you are saying would be solved/made better if they reduced it by 1 second. the other spammable dispellable ccs are 6. it makes no sense that this one which causes the target to be immune to be at 6 as well.
as a healer, cyclone and cheap shot are the two CCs left that just feel too long to me, given how frequent they are and how they can easily be rotated or applied to multiple targets.
it has counter play. its a hardcast with a short range. they nerfed that giga fast clone which was insanely broken. its fair, just needs 1 sec off duration i swear.
Appreciate the input I"d be interested to see what both our takes would look like. Either way I’d like blizz to do something it just doesnt feel good right now.