This thread really showcases why everyone says the wow community is the worst. My buddys gear has no effect on my life. Equal gear doesnt bring an avg gamer onto par w a pro. The issue is alot of people use their mythic gear as some type of flex and its both hilarious and sad. I work a rotating shift, have a wife and 2 dogs w a baby on the way. I look up guides on dungeons and id say im an above average gamer (diamond 1 on overwatch, 3.3kio in df) and this seasons pug scene is a dumpster fire.
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The pug scene hasnât changed really.
It remains how it always was, you sometimes get people that int keys, you sometimes succeed because people play well. Most consistent factor is your own play, and what you can do to make keys successful.
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The discussion is about people who previously found the 6-8 bracket to be fun but 10s to be too sweaty.
For those people, thereâs no longer a path to advance their character past running 4s and like me, theyâre probably just going to quit for the season if they find 4s too easy but 9-10s too sweaty.
Iâm not losing sleep over it, plenty of other games to be playing instead, but if you donât think people quitting is bad for the game⌠good luck.
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Itâs more healthy, because it induces âperfect playâ from an efficiency perspective, without the appearance of being unsurmountable as early as it is right now. People grow less frustrated if instead of instant â0 mistakesâ, what they need is easily identifiable (more numbers, more efficient pulls).
Let me put it this way, if you entered a key right now, what would feel better: Death in a random trash pull to attrition (not enough kicks / casts almost oneshotting people), or finishing the key with minimal deaths missing timer by a minute or two? What would actually generate more incentive to play better? What would feel more within player control?
If dungeons got more mechanics as you progressed, youâd need effective counter tools. As long as those counter tools do not restrict the class pool into a god comp, thatâs fine. I donât trust Blizz to do that right now. This season particularly, is loaded with curses/poisons/fear mechanics and loads of casts. Only 1 spec can deal with all of that in a certain role. They are already designing things very restrictively, I wouldnât give them the option to do that even more tbh.
The squish was a horrendous idea. Everyone from brand new, never played an expansion before dude in 615 gear from delves is dping the same keys as a former 3kio player
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For me to have fun, (as a healer) you need to be able to die. So Iâd rather have players die.
Cut timer in half. letâs say (why not.) Thatâs not going to be any better.
Envision the VERY BEST are able to do it in half in this purely hypothetical scenario.
Itâs going to be just as cutthroat.
Itâs still going to be stuff they can solve⌠just like going +1 key level.
Death is better than 0 death run and needing to find moar dps somewheres.
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This is the worst M+ season ever by magnitudes for all of the reasons the OP described. Challengerâs Peril should be exclusively for players pushing very high keys, not an affix stuck in the middle of low heroic ilvl gear progression.
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Challengerâs peril should not exist, and we should have stuff like Afflicted /Incorporeal etc back.
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Itâs relevant to people who want to push further and say they did it, dude. The problem isnât the fact that it just keeps scaling, itâs just that the earlier keys are now sufficiently challenging for the quality of gear they drop.
Just like people who have for decades done speed run or other types of runs of games to make it deliberately harder. There was no achievement except for the feels of saying, I did it!
People are just sad because before you could waltz into a 2 or 3 or 4 with quest gear âŚand now itâs just not that easy.
I also play a healer. Itâs not enjoyable to have people die because of things that are not controllable (not enough stops).
Itâs not about cutting timer in half. Itâs about progressively requiring faster completions. For example:
+12 = Timer reduced by 2.5%. (30:00 timer â> 29:15)
+13 = Timer reduced by 4% (30:00 timer â> 28:48)
+14 = Timer reduced by 5.5% (30:00 timer â> 28:31)
and so forth.
Generating this space where you can progress at the pace your skill allows will fix the whole problem Iâm describing above.
CC existsâŚ
use CC.
Do smaller pulls and just pull dps out of hat.
Like a +14 being the exact same as a +12 sounds very boring.
CC exists, but not all comps have the cc and/or utility required to handle pulls right now. This is precisely the problem with multiplicative scaling, where anything becomes deadly just because. Not to mention that because of that scaling, the smaller you pull, the less chances to succeed.
In the context of pugs, to make matters worse.
If this thread has taught me anything, itâs that I remain correct in my past assertions that people losing it over dungeon tuning and affixes are simply telling on themselves for being bad players.
You control the people you invite. What?
And all comps wonât have the tools needed to hit whatever new limit it is via timer reduction.
+20, okay, now people can play at +19 instead.
Just like now?
+13 too hard? do +12.
Biggest issue because scaling stops? Technically, people have done a +20, they just lacked the key.
If 4s are too easy but 9-10 is too sweaty, then maybe the problem lies in trying to skip the preceding 5 levels.
Just a few thoughts from another player. For context, Iâve played since vanilla, though Iâve taken a number of breaks and missed arguably most seasons and raid tiers in recent years.
Ive done M+ since Shadowlands S1, though again I didnt play every season. Every season I played, I got to KSM or higher, but never portals and def not even close to title. Im currently somewhere over 2k in TWW S1.
I play healer almost exclusively in M+ though ive played several different ones. Healer is a challenging role, though all roles in mid to high m+ are challenging.
Overall, the affix changes this season are good. The move away from affix rotations that encouraged push weeks and dead weeks is huge. Currently isnt perfect, but a big improvement. In some seasons there were affixes that straight up made me want to pull my hair out, particularly because they were ignored by everyone and assigned to heals to deal with in mid keys.
The squish itself is mostly fine, though i think the tuning is terrible. I do think the squish even with better tuning does a poor job at distributing players though. The jump in difficulty between one key level and the next can be kind of insane all things being equal.
The worst part of this season besides general dungeon tuning is the 15 second timer. They need to bin that, even in high keys. It penalizes deaths far too much and a wipe is often a deplete. Combined with a number of mechanics that can kill easily ifmistakes are made, this just doubles down on a penalty. A death at the start of a boss is insanely punishing now.
For rewards, i think the biggest issue here is that delves reward tuning is off the charts. The difficulty to reward ratio isnt even remotely comparable. I know lots of people who do t8 delves all day long but have no hope of timing a 7. Given that delves are the only other semi repeatable content giving rewards near M+ it feels bad when i sweat for 30 minutes to time a 7 or 8 and joe casual rolls face and solos multiple t8 delves in that time.
Couple things though. Changes and adjustments are fine and even needed, but going back to the old affix system is a terrible idea and wont improve any issue currently going on. Giving a set number of m+ completions during a lockout would have the opposite effect you presumably want. It would increase toxicity and stress, further gatekeeping even more. Who wants to take someone without perfect gear and meta comp and established skill to challenging timed content where a wipe means you fail and cant try again for a day or week or whatever? Who wants to heal or tank in that environment, as a pug? This would create a situation worse than the pug heroic raids that demand AOTC from all joiners and ilvl nearly at content relevant cap. You dont want that. It wouldnt affect high end folks that much in finding groups or getting title, though it would ruin the key pushing scene. But it would obliterate normal folks in the top 40 percent who arent top 5 percent.
You are completely -and possibly deliberately- missing the point. Thereâs always going to be a meta, and a limit that canât be broken. Itâs just not good for a games state that youâre induced to play the meta as soon as it is right now, with barely any distance between max reward and artificial wall.
Also, the artificial wall is at 12, not 13. How much incidence do you think peeling sub 1 minute has on key completion, vs. not matching the absurd counters requirement there is right now for the average group?
Thatâs not what I said but thank you, youâve made pretty clear that your opinion is that everyone who canât clear a +12 in green questing gear is a bad.
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Yes, thereâs always going to be a meta, so why does your proposal change anything?
And worse? Youâll run into a scenario where people TECHNICALLY have done higher keys, they just lacked the official key.
And that will just be a feels bad moment.
Because absolutely nothing changes in your scheme once key decides to stop scaling.
You just straight up shouldnât be doing keys in quest greens.
90% of these complaints are people grouping for keys that are just blatantly beyond their gear level, dying, and calling it overturned when the actual problem is youâre 10 or more item levels too low.