Better gear drops
Less crests needed to upgrade to max
Better io score
Better pool to choose from than 4’s
Again, you keep bringing gear/rewards into this when you were discussing fun, and i specifically asked about fun. Why can’t the people who are capped at 4s now because they don’t have the gear to cover their skill, keep having fun in 4s?
Or just remove it. It adds nothing interesting to the key and just makes it so wiping immediately kills a key. It wildly punishes small mistakes. Expectations of exact perfection are becoming unrealistic when paired with all of the other uncontrollable and RNG variables.
Don’t expect perfection from me if I can’t GUARANTEE to have a way to stop every single targeted cast and 1 shot mechanic. Punish me for messing up. Don’t punish me for existing somewhere wrong when you decide I need to die randomly.
Or, once again, just remove the extra scaling and build it into the key scaling as a default. All it is doing is adding a flat modifier onto the +10-20% existing modifier. Just scale that number to match fort/tyr existing at higher keys instead of padding the health of everything at random breakpoints.
And remove the “stop protection” on casts. The only thing this is doing is making interrupting casts less useful as chain casting means it’s more effective to just eliminate something with CC before it two shots you with casts that you physically can not interrupt all of back to back. And it makes some healers infinitely harder to play, with less interrupts in the party as a whole
Just don’t degrade failed keys. This is a much easier solution that doesn’t punish people for things out of their control, and prevents abuse as people can and will abuse this to troll people by getting them suspended or whatever, or forcing them to wait out a 35 minute timer to prevent being punished.
I wish we could design things in a way that assumes people are going to be cooperative and fair. However, a large section of people are just inherently mean and hostile, looking for ways to make others suffer and hurt.
Giving them tools to do this by abusing a punishment mechanic like that never ends up well. It’s why it doesn’t exist in the first place. You can’t trust everyone to be a good actor, thus can’t design systems assuming everyone is.
Dying is not a “small mistake.” A wipe doesn’t brick an entire key except when it is already tight or when people get demoralized and give up.
“Stop protection” only applies to abilities that are CC or displacement, not interrupts. It makes interrupts MORE powerful than just an Augvoker hotting Upheaval.
Removing key degradation is a nice idea but a naive one. When there is no penalty for bricking a key, you create scenarios where key leaders kicks people because they weren’t good enough to carry them and they will create a revolving door of time-wasting with no penalty.
You’ve obviously never ran a 10 stonevault where the healer walks on the first death because the tank double pulls the first two packs.
Or a Necrotic Wake that dies instantly on the first wipe of any boss but Blightbone due to the walk-back compounding the timer, or spears being consumed.
I’ve seen way more keys killed on a single wipe this season than any I’ve done prior.
Would be amazing if they didn’t spin up another cast less than 3 seconds later.
Groups of 3-5 casters aren’t uncommon with this dungeon pool. Simple math. 12 second interrupt is the shortest in the game. With casters, you’d need 3-4 interrupts to get all back-to-back casts in a cycle with zero overlap on a single target.
What’s easier? Cycling and communicating interrupt cooldowns, or cap totem > thunderstorm > blind/roar > evoker knockup > chaos nova/shockwave for ~10 seconds of CC and zero casts in that window. Use them at the end of their cast windows, and you can drag that out to almost 20 seconds of zero casts in a guaranteed AOE, killing them with zero casts.
I’ll grant you that point, but it’s not much different than the current PuG experience. Considering people are currently rage-quitting their own keys at the most minor of inconveniences as is, the only difference would be that the rest of us who actually want stuff to get done are given the chance to do it.
Honestly? I’d be more prone to just complete a key for credit and vault if I knew the keystone wasn’t depleting.
Lucky.
I’m just over 613 and I can’t even get into one to even raise my score. Heck, I’m lucky if I can even get into a M+ at all.
People being demoralized and ditching are players bricking keys, not that the penalty is too bad. My 10 AK had a very sloppy start, about four deaths before the first boss. People started to lean towards salt but we pushed through to complete it. We timed it and most of us joked about it because people were too quick to be demoralized. I have had players leave on keys that were going well, and players leave on sloppy but timeable keys. We had a healer leave in a +26 Everbloom right before first boss after we were WAY ahead on time without a single death. If you name it, I have seen it.
Ragers leaving or giving up at the very first sign of an inconvenience or even no sign at all isn’t because of Challenger’s peril, they’ve been doing that when it was only 5 seconds per death in Trivial keys.
As for what is easier, just pushing an interrupt button to cancel the main cast you have to kick is infinitely easier than setting up a Flawless stop chain that doesn’t waste or overlap stuns. Don’t interrupt earthbolt, interrupt Mass tremor. Don’t interrupt the shadow flame bolt, interrupt mind sear. Most abilities you don’t need to kick and is actually bad to kick because it creates a situation where you might not have a real interrupt for the important ability. Stops are for delaying the spam spells that are not going to stun or one shot somebody or hit the entire party, interrupts are for the important things. You can get through a plus 10 without a stop chain but it isn’t like Dragon flight where a single Demon Hunter tank can shut down an entire trash pull for about 20 something seconds.
And here people are going on about Prot Paladins being useless because they do 75% the damage of the other tanks, forgetting they seem to have an infinite amount of interrupts at their disposal too 
We used to be able to. Isn’t that enough justification to be upset at the changes?
The upside to season 1 is that it can be improved for season 2 and onward. As long as they listen to the community, unless of course they know something we dont.
I think it’s a testament to how insanely undertuned mythic+ has historically been for its rewards.
It’s not surprising people are upset at its change to be more in line with its other end game PvE counterpart being that they are separate independent end game paths.
I’m more of a casual player. Not a bad player but certainly not a top guy either. I do think the game is overtuned and to the top guys who are really good they seem to favor this. I get it but to those top guys who say things like “get better” you have to remember if people aren’t playing the game then the game doesn’t exist. No subs=no money and then no one wins. It’s a very divisive situation but that’s life in general. M+ is fun but it’s broken sadly. Even if the tuning stays the same the other major issue is it takes too long to get a run a lot of times. Blizzard has done zero in regards to getting a key started and then if they key goes bad and someone leaves, then that’s time wasted. Not sure how to fix it so I won’t make suggestions but what I will say is I think at some point the walls will cave and people will leave the game unfortunately unless they fix the system as a whole.
I don’t understand what is stopping you from finding like minded players who will invite each other and progress regardless of numbers and such.
Given the sheer amount of people complaining, surely, there should be a way for you to organize and eliminate the perceived gate keeping problem.
Yes, any system that allows individuals to CHOOSE who plays with them is a form of gate keeping…but that’s not always a bad thing.
Look at DF S1 metrics.
give it to the wow community to bring up metrics on a game that you play as entertainment. my opinion is for blizzard to just delete mythic plus. just go back to the wotlk dungeons , super easy heroics , no complicated mechanics, people can gather unlimited budges and level up. problem solved …… oh wait people were bored of that
Basic design philosophy isn’t to spend a third of your resources on 1% of the people who play the game. That’s wasteful and investors and the board of directors would be right to cut it entirely.
I just see it as a personal change, I am just not M+ material at this point in the xpac. Too much to learn to be a tank, not even enough time to resto sham past M2 ish. I figure it’s just me and “getting older” with so much going on in life.
At least there are delves and a sense of progression for me, so I can still play the game, but the M+ bar is just too high for me. I like tanking, but I don’t like the feeling of being inadequate for M2s, that’s pretty sucky since I used to do M15s in BfA. Like I said, feels like a “me problem,” and that the game has gone past me.
by elitism you are referring to players becoming better to do harder content ? have you ever played any sport in your life ? or went to a job interview?
It doesn’t take a third of the resources though?
And if you want 100% participation or close to, we would get more questing, no raids, no dungeons.
Ahh yes its common in the job application world for people to tell you to alt f4 yourself because your typo in ms word set the office building on fire.
no but choosing good players to play difficult levels is not elitism , or picking good athletes to play a sport or choosing a good employ to do a task. how about if i give you a participation trophy and move on