Current M+ difficulty is not good for player retention

Community General Discussion
102

Stop being so unbelievably dense. No one wants a fuggin participation trophy. We want the same tools to compete for the trophy. – You’re stacking your groups with FOTM classes, run with the same people, and then preach on the forums that “We’re Ridiculous” for wanting our classes to perform better so we don’t have to reroll.

Its literally where the term “Nerfed” came from.

We’re playing with Nerf Bats, while you stack your group with FOTM War Maces.

If you can’t see the concerns, and just want to stand on your imaginary M+ pedestal, and get your self-worth from a video game… I got bad news for you bud.

You’re the one who’s ridiculous.

2 Likes
103

In 2024 right !!

But sometimes I’m jealous of priests when I interrupt something that someone else kicked same time. Then, I wish I was free from from spell lock responsibilities.

104

100% agree.

Give the healers (and tanks too) the answers that other classes can just cruise thru because they can just drop a totem or, in warrior’s case, heal fast than a BDK.

105

I agree. I think they should award gilded from 7’s and mythic track from 8’s.

106

Somewhere around there… the gear cliff is pretty real and its trivial once your past it.

107

I would love an Interrupt. I would sit on it, until the last second before a nuke went off to save myself some trouble. – I would have a kick tracker, and if everyone else was on CD, I’d use mine as the back up for critical interrupts…

BUT – For some damn reason, the ONLY class with two healing spec’s can’t do the following things:

  • Cleanse Poisons
  • Decurse
  • Battle Rez

You’d think that masters of healing could cure a poison or resurrect someone in battle, but Nooooooo.

1 Like
108

worst part is the hard gear wall. Such a shame its even worse then DF season 1. But I expected it from noob devs

109

Nah, you’re just making excuses and got (VERY) obviously triggered when called out on them. Again, I’m done approaching these conversations with kid gloves because so many of the “game design is what’s holding me back” crowd is overly dramatic and insulting in their own right.

I’ve been leveling my mistweaver alt almost strictly pugging, and the lack of utility, personals, and interrupt being used literally bolsters my point.

In the wake of these forum arguments, I actually made it a point to document 10 runs, and the number of interrupts being used.

3/10 runs, we had a shaman that didn’t interrupt once. 4/10, a tank that was 3rd or lower on interrupts. 2 of the 10 runs we had groups that I would label as “decent.” Two of the shamans argued “the interrupts wouldn’t have helped much” unironically.

So yeah, when I don’t need to take anyone’s word for it, and I just consistently run into it, it’s just beyond clear that it’s greatly a mechanics issue, and little more.

And to be quite honest, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter to me. Y’all can keep making excuses, keep saying “I could totally do it if only Blizz would help me!!” But at the end of the day, you’re the one that has to live with your own failure and lack of progression.

You want to go through life not being accountable? Go ahead, but don’t be surprised when people aren’t rushing to your side giving you handouts.

Don’t care, enjoy being hard stuck and thinking it’s the game’s fault.

1 Like
110

you can get it by just running one 7 a day for a few weeks if you consider half of them will just end up untimed in randoms and you can still hit ksm with some 6s mixed with 7s

111

I’ll admit I’m triggered, as long as you admit you’re Toxic – that fair?

My entire tirade is based on your “Ridiculous” comment, that was literally designed to trigger and be toxic – lets get that out of the way.

There are 100s of replies in this thread and 1000s more on the forums that share my opinion. Yet, here you are… the <1% flexin on the nubs. Hope it feels good. Its a fuggin video game, bro. Get over yourself.

Then why don’t you use Holy Priests in your 11+?

Why don’t you use Brewmasters in 11+?

Why do you have Death Knights in almost all your keys?

Why is Resto Shaman in all your 11+?

Why is Warrior Tank in nearly all your keys?

Is it because you are taking the BEST classes, because they are overwhelmingly better than other classes?

You have still yet to explain why your entire comp on all your top keys is tailored specifically to FOTM.

You are literally in the top 1% of players right now, and you’re sitting here insulting the majority of the player base, saying “I can do it, so can you” while using the top classes.

News Flash: The VAST majority of the player base PUG. Most are playing the Sub-par classes and apply to 30-keys before they get accepted, because why? Everyone wants FOTM because it increases the success rate of the key

We don’t see DKs, RShamans, or Prot Warriors really complaining right now… I wonder why…

Before you say, “yOu hAvE a KeY wHy dOnT yOu rUn iT”

I’m a Holy Priest:

  • No Interrupt
  • No Battle Rez
  • No Poison Cleanse
  • No Curse Removal
  • Sub-par AoE Healing
  • Weak DPS
  • No Stuns
  • Second Weakest Mobility in the Game
  • No Meaningful Defensives
  • Weak Cooldowns – The ones we have require a Channel or Long Cast
  • ect…ect…

Meaning, I’m 100% at the complete mercy of my party to do the right thing. I have absolutely nothing to correct ANY mistakes.

Another thing your most recent reply highlights is that you recognize its a “Player Issue” when you PUG. – The primary reason push high is because you pre-made FOTM. Which is what I called you out on, which triggered you enough to literally track the interrupts in your PUG groups, which is a little ridiculous for someone who… See Below

When I look up the top Holy Priests they are doing the EXACT same thing as you are doing - They have a group of friends the push keys with. Not everyone has friends willing to do that.

They have a Warrior Tank, Shaman DPS, Augmentation Evoker, and DK DPS – In nearly ALL their top pushes. – That comp looks very similar to yours.

Literally, All I’ve asked is that they bring up subpar classes. That’s it and you’re against it, and that blows my mind… it really does. — The fact that you use a specific set of classes in nearly all your push keys, and then turn around and tell the lowest rated healer spec that “Its a Skill Issue” is ridiculous.

How is it a skill issue, when I literally don’t have 10% of what a RShaman has in Utility?

If you tell me to Reroll, you prove my point FYI

Besides, I’m not rerolling, I love Priest. Literally been playing it on and off since Vanilla.

I challenge you… I see your Stonevault is still a 9. Take the comp I’m about to give you and complete a 10 in time. I’ll take the L and admit that I’m wrong.

1. Brewmaster Monk
2. Holy Priest Healer
3. Affliction Warlock (You)
4. Shadow Priest
5. Beast Master Hunter

If you have a SINGLE problem with that comp, you are admitting that I’m correct.

2 Likes
112

True and I’ve done it on many toons this season already. But that’s not where the real struggle kicks in, it’s more around the 2250+ range breaking through that with the +9s and such. But my point was, even KSM most people won’t ascend to.

113

Because these three classes are what our group decided to play. Is this supposed to be some kind of “gacha?” Is playing optimally bad? Our warrior and DK have been playing those classes for years, and unlike the fotm chasers, will continue to play them regardless of their balance state.

Warlock is absolutely not FOTM, and we run with our BM hunter friend a lot when he can play, and last I checked, isn’t BM one of if not the worst dps in the game in keys? Yeah, 3 of the classes are meta, but when 40% of our group isn’t, it’s laughable to say “running a meta comp.”

People only use this text when it’s a sound point, but they don’t have a good rebuttal so they grasp at mockery.

If you look through my post history, I am amongst the biggest advocates for a priest redesign. I’ve spent FAR more time than I should have arguing with idiots that think priests are “fine” when it comes to their kit. I have no argument here.

That being said, priest is actually pretty strong in groups that can shoreup their weaknesses. There’s quite a few up there. Yes, the party needs to be good, but that’s true of anyone. If you’re a resto shaman, it doesn’t matter how good you are at interrupting/hard stopping. If it’s a high enough level key, even Resto shamans cannot carry 3-4 braindeads.

I 100% will always argue the opposite. I respect people that stick with their class through ups and downs.

This is an insanely disingenuous argument. Composition, even if you don’t build for meta, requires optimization. You purposely listed a comp that had almost literally the lowest amount of interrupts and AoE stops.

I don’t care what class I, you, or anyone is playing, I would never build a group like this, because I want to time keys.

You can’t just unironically go “take Brew, triple shadow priest, holy priest in and time it, and if you can’t, I’m correct.”

You don’t need meta comps to time 10’s and 11’s, but you can’t just put together a comp with ZERO synergy and weakness coverage and say “hah! Told ya!”

114

M+ is only popular for a small minority of wow player base.

The vast majority of players don’t care about M+ at all.

Therefore, of course M+ doesn’t matter for player retention, no matter how difficult or easy it is.

115

Isn’t that the point they’re making? What do those classes offer?

116

Are you wanting me to list off all of their utility? Because they all have utility and things they bring. The BM hunter probably being the least so, but even they have lust, AoE and single target stops, etc.

Just because a group of 5 classes aren’t synergistic and good together, doesn’t mean they’re not viable.

Every single one of those specs has representation over 2800 io, but not one of them got there running that specific comp, because it had no synergy.

Building groups optimally has and always will be a thing, if it weren’t, every class would literally just be the same and offer nothing unique or different from the others.

It’s disingenuous because it was purposely tailored to be a comp with zero synergy, as a sort of “gacha.” Even though by that logic you could argue “there’s a problem with the game because tank/healer/triple BM hunter doesn’t work.”

117

My Point COMPLETELY!

Then WHY THE FUG are you even arguing with me?! My whole point was to bring up other healers so they are useful in keys so toxic players don’t only defer to them.

We are literally at the point where groups will wait an extra 20-30 minutes for a RSham because of their Utility than, take literally any other healer – Thats not a “Git Gud” problem. Thats a design problem. – I even got denied in an 8 Delve at 612 iLv. lmao

I’d like to PUG a few 9s each week for Crests, but with current difficulty and the emphasis of Utility I haven’t been accepted to anything higher than a 6. – Because FOTM Utility, not because HPriests are bad healing wise, but because of Utility. Although, some buffs to AoE healing would be nice.

Maybe if I had a Stun or an Interrupt I could reserve it for DPS who overlap kicks, and I save mine as a back-up. – Second Boss, NW I could reserve mine for the Mage to stop the ridiculous Arcane Damage that nukes everyone, and the DPS/Tanks can focus on Boss Ints. — I don’t have that option…

118

I really don’t even know how to respond to this except for building comps optimally had and will always be a thing, and purposely not doing so isn’t an external fault. Again, you can’t just go “triple BM hunter doesn’t work, my point exactly!” Classes have strengths and weaknesses, and building groups optimally to mitigate those is just good gameplay.

Because when you’re play a class who, in the current patch, is dealing with adversity, you have two options.

You can try to overcome it, build optimal groups to offset what you lack, and work harder than resto shamans to progress.

Or you can complain, continuously think that the only thing preventing you from moving forward is class balance, and flock to the forums.

Every single spec in the game has people over 2750 io, with most having specs over 2800. And sure, the best and most understandable response is “well they’re playing established groups.”

Yes they are. It’s never too late to foster your own player base. People are adverse to broaden their friends and almost self-sabotage themselves to being locked in eternal pug hell.

I know you don’t and I sympathize to the plights of priests. But groups can be built to offset their lack of interrupts and stops.

Because again, you can poohoo poor me about it, and either reroll or quit until changes happen, or you can accept your class as it is in its current form, work harder than others, and try to push through.

I mean hell man, what item level are ya? (I can’t see your profile). If you’re decently geared enough you can friend me and come to a couple of our 10’s when our resto shams not online. If you’re doing mechanics correctly and have the throughput to heal 10’s and 11’s, I’m happy to have ya.

119

I’m done engaging with you – I was trying to find middle ground.

You clearly are of the Toxic “Git Gud” mentality, when this is clearly a lopsided balancing issue.

You’re agreeing with me that Priests have it rough, then immediately turn around and blast me when I voice my opinion on it, despite you literally admitting to doing the same thing that I’m doing now…

This is literally you right now:

"Priests are fine, as long as you overcome it and build optimal groups. - Don’t complain on the forums. Unless, your name is Happymushu, then its fine, because I’m allowed to argue with idiots that think “Priests are fine”.

^^^This is me right now, this is what I’m doing… so, I’m done arguing with an idiot.

120

Alright man, I tried to extend an olive branch.

Good luck out there.

121

Is the first Season of the expansion, coming season 2 and onward it will be a joke for even the not so competent players.

Sit back, play and enjoy the game!