Current gearing systems are not casual friendly

[Leiloni-area-52]

I’m going to step away, you seem to be clearly not interested in view points beyond your own. Let it suffice that I think the story is much more complicated than “Getting gear should be hard because <insert reason>”. I think there are a lot more dynamics in the game than either one of us is able to see with our limited view.

The fact is you want to skip entire tiers of content so you can jump right to the end where your friends, who have put in the work while you were away, will take you back.

Some of us are adult enough to realize that we have to make sacrifices for real life, and for the fun of the game as a whole for everybody playing. Time spent and skill/effort required should equal an appropriate reward. Giving a 400 for a WF does not, nor does giving 385 for 4 WQs.

I get you want to keep up with the Joneses, but you can’t if you’re taking breaks for real life and the game really should not be designed to let you do that. Even in the most casual progression focused themepark out there - FFXIV - you can’t do that. You have to grind badges there via appropriate lower level content until you work your way up to normal and savage raids in that game.

Casuals of varying types have always made up a majority of this game and it’s detrimental to the health of the game if much of their desired content is made entirely irrelevant within the span of a week with mindless chores like WQs and WFs.

[Bury-hydraxis]

Just thought I’d add a reply since I have very similar feelings as the OP. I consider myself a ‘casual’ in that I don’t really have the schedule to commit to a regular raiding team and/or mythic team that gets into the really high level stuff. (But I do play quite a lot) So with that I’m looking at raid finder and maybe up to +5s or so…?

And yeah, I completely agree with the feeling that the gearing is so quick and easy now that you really quickly get to a point where you have no activities that have any gear-related rewards. It’s totally awesome that someone with limited playtime, or a new player or alt, etc. can quickly get geared for raiding really quickly. But the flip side to that is this situation where you really quickly outgear the more casual stuff and if gear is a motivator to do activities then you’re losing motivation to do anything.

I hit 120 on a new hunter a few weeks back, and within one week I had him above 370 ilvl, a couple weeks later he’s now sitting at 385. Getting all that gear that allows me to do higher level stuff is awesome, but yeah, it was super quick and easy and now…? I’ve only done one wing of raid finder once, and definitely want to see the new raid, but without gear motivating me to get in there I just haven’t done it yet.

And to answer the what do I enjoy question. It’s probably nostalgia or misremembering how things were, but I feel like I remember back in Wrath (last time I played the game a lot) the badge system meant it was worth it to go crank out some heroics for a long time because you usually could use more badges to get a new piece of tier gear. Aside from a small trickle of titan residuum, I have nothing making me want to go run more than 1 of a given thing each week. I kind of do whatever level M+ I’m comfortable with/can get into once a week and then wait and see if the thing in my chest happens to be in a a slot where I can actually use it. Maybe titan residuum rewards from heroics? Probably not a great idea, but you know, something that motivates me to go crank out a bunch of dungeons because there’s an eventual upgrade in it for me.

And to those saying ‘do what’s fun for you’. Totally agree, lots of fun stuff in the game these days I think. But I think most of the player base is motivated by gear to some extent, it’s an RPG, we want to get cool stuff for doing things, and you quickly get to a point where you really aren’t getting anything of worth from a lot of things.

[Synsha-greymane (Synsha)]

• Why exactly is overgearing bad? Who didn’t like near the end of Legion when you felt like a hot chainsaw through butter? Feeling like a powerhouse is good, no?

One of the biggest reasons people play an RPG is for character progression. When you overgear content, it literally means you can achieve zero character progression from said content (or very very little… like 1 minor upgrade from an entire raid that drops from 1 boss). The OP is stating that, because so much gear is handed out, it’s sorta defeating to be entering into normal mode (the first version of the raid that pushes back) and have no upgrades at all. It’s even more defeating when you enter heroic mode, a mode which has traditionally been for people who do start dedicating time to honing their ability as it really pushes back, and there’s STILL only a few minor upgrades.

In other words… at that point there’s no character progression. You only start to get character progression again when you hit Mythic or if you do M+ 10’s (and then only from the weekly cache or WF/TF). Mythic raiding flat out isn’t for everyone. The time commitment, player dedication, team commitment, and flat out skill requirement… many people just can’t do it. M+ 10’s… Similar story.

That’s what the OP is complaining about. It seems silly to have character progression halt until the cutting edge of game play due to how many sources and how fast you can get a character to that point (relative to prior expansions).

• Why is there still this pervasive sentiment about who “deserves” gear? Everyone pays their subs right?

It’s sorta funny. 10 years ago it was ‘Why is there still this pervasive sentiment about who “deserves” to see content? Everyone pays their subs right?’ I don’t think any player back then would ever dream that it would come to your version of the same statement. Please note, that I am an LFR/D supporter for retail WoW. It has it’s place in the current version of the game. What you have to remember is that when you play WoW, you’re not playing in a vacuum. It is a MMO. So while a system that nets you all this really sweet loot is great for you… it’s also “great” for everyone else. For you… this has zero negative effects! You don’t care about progression, nor do you care about competition. That’s great! Really I’m not casting any negative aspersions about that. The problem is… You’re not everyone. Lots of players, myself included, enjoy the competition and enjoy progression. All of these handouts devalue a lot of it for anyone in the Norm/Heroic region of progression. It doesn’t affect me as much as I’m in Mythic progression. Only through WF/TF does it affect me.

So I guess you have to start asking yourself the question: Is me getting this insanely overpowered gear for the content I’m doing worth it, at the expense of the bulk of the norm/heroic crowds enjoyment?

For some, the answer is yes. For others, myself included, the answer is no. You don’t need heroic raid loot to defeat a WF or a WQ or any of the other guaranteed success content. It’s not just a “not need” it’s a you are so hilariously overpowered for that content that it may as well not exist except as points where you randomly collect rewards.

• So, you’re saying you’re a casual player, but you want to be rewarded worse gear for what you do?

I think he’s saying that exactly yes. With all of the rewards, normal dungeons, heroic dungeons, regular mythic dungeons, LFR, normal raids, and to a point heroic raids are rendered moot due to non-stop hand outs of 385 and 400 pieces of gear. This on top of WF/TF makes all of that quickly useless content for a character progression oriented player.

I want to add as a final note, that it’s very easy to paint me as a typical elitist “YOU DON"T DESERVE THIS YOU FILTHY CASUAL” player… I assure you I’m not. I’m approaching this from the point of view of my BC and Wrath self. I know that I would have been pretty disappointed if my entire character progress ended 2-3 weeks into playing the end game, unless I decided that I needed to join not only a raiding guild, but a relatively upper tier guild that had its sights set on eventually entering mythic raiding.

[Buurr-hellscream (Buurr)]

I miss the Wrath badge system so much. Was the best they ever did and no idea why they didn’t continue with it.

[Kydrav-bleeding-hollow]

WOTLK had the best gearing system hands down

[Ashna-scarlet-crusade]

It’s very unusual to see someone complain about getting good gear. My suggestion is to either bank or destroy any gear you don’t feel you deserve. That way everything still stays a challenge for you and you don’t feel so overpowered.

I enjoy getting nice stuff and upgrading. I still play in content that I am not challenged in. I’m sure it’s the same for raiders who want to do current content outside of raids where they know that the loot rewards will not be even close to upgrades.

I will continue to have fun and at least know that I can kill stuff solo due to some nice items that I was able to get in casual content. Thanks, Blizzard, for allowing the casual player to get nice rewards to make their game time more enjoyable.

[Synsha-greymane (Synsha)]

It’s very unusual to see someone complain about getting good gear. My suggestion is to either bank or destroy any gear you don’t feel you deserve. That way everything still stays a challenge for you and you don’t feel so overpowered.

That’s sorta like saying, if the game is too easy, then just play one handed. I’m sure you’ll then have fun playing it.

Most people want the game to naturally augment their style of play. They don’t want to have to place artificial barriers to “enhance” their play style.

[Kydrav-bleeding-hollow]

Lmao, I’m not even gunna respond to that one dear lord imagine playing a game that was easy and not challenging like I don’t understand why you’d want to play it at all.

[Bomm-dunemaul]

All it does it ensure that the content most casuals enjoy doing is very quickly not worth doing. LFR, Heroics, Unrated BG/Arenas for Conquest cap, Warfronts, even low level Mythic +'s, are very quickly worthless.

I do all of those and still end up with 1-2 upgrades per week actually. which is more or less the same upgrade rate via raiding.

[Ashna-scarlet-crusade]

Not everyone is into the raiding, dungeons, and top end game. I enjoy PLAYING the game. To me, it is fun and relaxing. I guess it’s different for everyone.

[Synsha-greymane (Synsha)]

Some do play for the story and for the social connection. What I don’t get is why people who play for such things also think it makes sense that they acquire the best gear in the game (aside from Mythic and upper level M+) fundamentally breaking it for other types of players (everyone below cutting edge).

It’s a perfect example of the phrase: Having your cake and eating it.

[Kydrav-bleeding-hollow]

Not everyone is into the raiding, dungeons, and top end game. I enjoy PLAYING the game. To me, it is fun and relaxing. I guess it’s different for everyone.

But why do you need gear for that? Why does it matter to you if you can clear the content you want to do already with lower ilevel gear?

You shouldn’t expect amazing gear for doing low skill level content that’s just ridiculous it’s a progression game.

[Aedrid-zuljin (Aedrid)]

There are too many players to try and keep happy.

• The veteran hardcore player who wants progression and gear to mean something
• The player who wants progression to mean something but isn’t hardcore about it … maybe raids but doesn’t do heroic
• People who do raids and/or M+ as end game … both? only one?
• People who play casual but want quick progression
• People who play casual but DON’T want quick progression
• People who log on to farm old stuff or do pet battles or play the AH and don’t give a crap about gear and progression
• PVE player vs PVP players, or players who like both

There is NO way to make a game that is going to please everyone and yet that’s exactly what they seem hellbent on doing (probably cause they think 'mo people, 'mo money) and in the process are turning out a product that just seems to frustrate everyone.

WoW has no identity anymore.

[Ashna-scarlet-crusade]

This is the first expansion where gear comes from all directions. Most casuals don’t expect the best gear, but when it drops, we’re certainly not going to toss it.

In Legion and prior, I was happy just surviving on the casual drops, being far below the ilvl of raiders.

[Bomm-dunemaul]

what you mean ‘breaking it’? people that raid heroic+ are more geared than those that don’t(with very very few extremely lucky exceptions) unless you’re trying to tell me that normal raids are actually difficult end game content O.o i’d put that in the same category as darkshore warfront.

lets not even get into farming m10+

[Kydrav-bleeding-hollow]

Gear should be determined and rewarded based on the difficulty of content you’re doing. All these WQs with Collector Kojo and Tidesage Nola that are rewarding gear equal to that you’d get somewhat difficult content is ridiculous.

If you’re doing easy content, why do you need gear anyways?

[Ashna-scarlet-crusade]

But why do you need gear for that? Why does it matter to you if you can clear the content you want to do already with lower ilevel gear?

You shouldn’t expect amazing gear for doing low skill level content that’s just ridiculous it’s a progression game.

I don’t EXPECT anything. If it drops or is a reward, I will take it if it is an upgrade. Sometimes I reject the upgrades because it has the wrong stats that I am wanting. And you’re right, I don’t NEED top gear for casual stuff.

[Iltarion-stormrage]

to go queue a warfront and get a 400 piece

AGain only once and I said it many time casuals just cant get 415 pieces , and this 400 does not mean you get right second stats. Casuals will always be at 390 level max maybe a little reach 400 but still no lifers have the best gear and the highest dps overall . There is no point arguing anymore. To reach the best progression and the best gear you have to raid mythic and do higher keys eventually.

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

They don’t want players to feel done in a given content cycle for fear that they’ll stop playing.

When I used to be done in a content cycle, I’d switch over to using my professions to gear up alts for myself and guildmates. Unfortunately, the current iteration of professions vs WQ gear means that’s no longer viable, since profession gear hasn’t kept up with ilvl bloat.

[Bojanglz-whisperwind (Bojanglz)]

Do you feel there are too many sources for rewards? I’m trying to understand exactly why you feel it is not casual friendly when you also list a bunch of areas that tend to be pretty accessible. Sure, if you are doing everything some of them might have no benefits, but often people with limited time aren’t able to do that.

With the limited and/or unpredictable playtime you mentioned, how long does it take you to clear all of those areas each week? Were you doing things like the faction assaults regularly and therefore didn’t have interest in LFR?

What content do you enjoy doing most (past or present)? Do you collect anything in particular?

Thanks for the input!

What I am getting from them is with all this 385/400 ilvl gear raining from the skies for basically doing nothing, that it prevents more casuals then from wanting to do LFR or lower Mythic+ because they are out gearing those places. And since they are casuals they don’t want to raid normal or heroic and beyond or do harder mythic+s because that isn’t their play style. So the sense of accomplishment is gone that they would get when putting in time for some LFR or Mythic+ 4 and lower but with no point in doing them now gear wise they feel it is hurting their play style.