I think the part that makes me shake my head the most is the devs don’t grasp that having something to work towards was a motivator. Now there is so much damn gear you make doing harder content kind of pointless. So many hand outs for limited effort. I can walk in to Heroic or Mythic raids now and have hardly anything to work towards gear wise because you have already made that same level gear available else where. It use to be your raid gear would carry you over a bit from patch to patch now you make it feel like a new expansion each patch with all this gear bloat. If Blizzard can’t grasp that soon then we are indeed circling the drain.
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Gotcha, no I agree 100%.
Doing Collector Kojo’s Super Mario World 3 matching game 3 times, shouldn’t reward someone the same gear as M+5-7.
Warfronts are guilty as sin of this you literally can go in there pick your nose, watch Supatease play his recorder on the other monitor, while eating Doritos and still get a 385 piece (400 for quest which = m10 drop btw).
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I still maintain that removing the Badge/Justice system from Wrath was a terrible idea and it really should be brought back. The issue is that if you are a casual player, who can only play for a few hours, doing content like Raids isn’t really worth it if you want some sense of progression, as drops are by no means a guarantee and often bad luck can mean getting absolutely nothing but Azerite in return. If there was a Badge system in place however, you would still have a sense of progression - “Okay, I didn’t get any gear on this run, but I did get a lot of Badges I can turn in for a consolation prize at least that’s maybe not AS good as what would drop from the Raid, but it’s still an upgrade.”
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There are quite simply too many avenues that grant too high of gear. Why does a warfront grant a heroic raid piece? Yes, I know it’s only once a cycle, but the difficulty level of a warfront is nowhere even close to that of a heroic raid. Warfronts are completely brain dead. But it rewards a piece of heroic level raid gear?
M+6 drops 385 gear from the end chest. Emissaries max out at 385 gear. Is an emissary quest even close to the difficulty of a M+6?
The creation of all of these sources of gear seems to completely devalue all the work you guys put into the game. Do a few emissaries, do the “do 5 TW’ing dungeons” weekly, the “do 5 Mythic dungeons” weekly, do your WF quest, and boom. You’re normal BoD and M+6 geared and possibly even better geared. So, why bother doing the raid or mid level M+'s?
The level of reward =/= the level of difficulty in the game. It devalues mid level raiding and mid level M+'s. We just started doing heroic progression on my main, and his iLvl is 397 or something. The iLvl’s from heroic BoD are 400, and my iLvl is already nearly that as a whole when I’ve barely stepped foot in heroic.
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Totally agree with your last point.
Never in an expansion has a new raid been opened and my toons are already overgeared for Normal and I jump right into Heroic progression. I play 5 toons and lowest ilvl of the 5 is sitting at 391. Why would I bother doing normal?
I’m not even motivated to get AOTC for the first time in years.
Raiding doesn’t mean anything anymore. Why bother 3-4 hours of slog in a raid for a chance at 1-2 pieces of gear when you can go out and get a welfare handout easier for less time.
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Louder for the people in the back
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The reward systems of WotLK and MoP felt far more rewarding, the Valor Point and Justice Point systems were great. You were rewarded more points for harder content but could still acquire them from Heroic Dungeons and LFR (if I recall correctly) and save them to get the gear you needed. They provided bad luck protection for raiders and a reward that could lead to decent gear in a timely fashion without feeling overwhelmed by the cost for lower content.
I’ll probably resub in a few weeks but I probably wouldn’t have unsubbed with that system in place. Titan Residuum costs are too high and the currency is not guaranteed from scrapping which makes it harder to get.
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Don’t forget we had PvP vendors back then too.
COUGH COUGH BRING THEM BACK COUGH COUGH SYSTEM WORKED FOR YEARS COUGH COUGH NOT HAVING THEM HURTING THE GAME COUGH COUGH
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As if finding the vendors would be difficult since the PvP areas are marked on the map.
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Personal observation: There are holes in the gearing progression at certain iLvL ranges because of how things go. This is actually extremely painful for DPS in particular because the only route around these holes is dungeons for the most part (and the long queue times!). The biggest holes I’ve found right now are 280-300, and 305-320. Above 320 warfront and LFR gear becomes available opening opportunities. But below that it’s basically dungeons or nothing.
That is the discussion.
Well also a good badges system would let you target the content you want to do and ignore the rest. So instead of overgearing yourself via WQs, Warfronts, etc. you can hop straight to the heroic then low mythic dungeons, or just grind BGs all day, and still gear up and get the stuff you want. Spend all night in enjoyable content and get the same rewards as other content (maybe different amounts of badges rewarded). True choice.
Beyond that, they can slow down gearing that way by making things cost more badges - so instead of massive gear upgrades every day, you get less upgrades, enjoy relevant content for a longer period of time (instead of skipping content due to too much gear), and get exactly the item you want instead of looking at a massive ilevel upgrade on your HPal that still has no Crit.
kydrav missing the whole point of this thread, they want the OPPORSITE. they literally want gearing to be slowed down, you stumble into the game press 1-2-3 and your are at an ilvl appropiate to radi the latest raid on Heroic within a few days /played. which if you are a casual means you have nothing WORTHWHILE gearing to do. if you enjoy BG’s the gear rewards for winning won’t be usefull unless they get a crazy titanforge, and even the conquest cap will not reward you with any upgrades, nothing to look forward to.
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There is literally nothing you can do in a raid story-wise that you can’t do in a M+. Waycrest Manor and Underrot have stories, for example.
They could easily have made BfA a few M+ dungeons instead of a raid. Piece of cake. And, instead of the entire raid experience being beaten now, as it is - it’s over, 30 guilds are finished the game already - as a M+ it would live on a lot longer and inspire more races and challenges.
Their dev work would produce more game time easily - and be more accessible to a larger audience in WoW itself. Hype would last longer with the top guilds pushing the highest keys. Blizzard just shoots themselves in the foot doing raid content when they have already created the next great thing and could instead push forward.
Who is liking this comment?
If you are a casual be happy with what you have. If you have no desire to raid mythic content or push high keys then you have plenty to do to keep you happy.
You are complaining about a system that is catering to the casual audience. A top tier player has very limited ways to progress:
- Mythic Raids (1 time per week)
- High Level Keys which only reward 410 gear or a rare titanforge
- Arenas and rated PVP.
Am I missing anything?
The casual has:
- TMOG runs
- Regular - M+ dungeons at varying skill levels
- LFR, Normal, Heroic raids
- Warfronts, PVP
- Dailies and emissary chests
- etc etc etc
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What are you people complaining about, casuals still cant get 415ilvl items. 400 is the max what you can get just by opening weekly chests. it took me a month to become 387 ILVl eventho I tried doing rated pvp arenas , a little of mythic+.
Everything is good
Wrong -
Plus , how many people have you seen with Titanforged 400+ gear from some wack system. I literally saw a post with a blue item that Titanforged to 420 - WTH???
That’s my plan. I mostly enjoy WPvP and BGs casually, so do that. So long as raider gear isn’t so much better that they can stomp casuals geared by grinding conquest, it remains fun. If one perceives prestige in gear level though, I could see how it might dissatisfy or seem pointless to do content that doesn’t advance that. Find ones rewards in the doings rather than the ending marks, and content can remain fun without constant gear advancement.
TLDR:
- Gear doesn’t feel rewarding
- Harder content feels pointless due to much easier methods of acquiring same gear
- Transmogs are awfully lazy this expansion
- Badges/Honor/Conquest vendors are wanted
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All of this content is available to the Mythic raider too… so yes you are missing something. That being a mythic raider and enjoying other parts of the game are not mutually exclusive.
Please read the OP - Your response is not in line with what they stated. They were talking about how the game is not catered for the casual audience.