Said the night elf fan. The games story is structured so bias is an absolute. Attempting take the high ground by claiming the other person is bias is pure ad hominem.
This started as just listing crimes, and adding stuff onto It. It was a little biased but he’s open for suggestions. —- Flaming the hell out of the dude, insulting his interpretation of the events, and playing victim in an argument you started is uncalled for.
At this point, these forums need to be listed as a war crime with how toxic they are.
While the sundering was mostly the fault of the highborne, the atrocities done on the trolls were the night elves fault, since it was commoner night elves that made up the bulk of Azshara’s armies prior to the war of the ancients.
Everyone always act like the internment camps were a horrible thing but what would you guys do with a race of genocidal aliens that had just tried to exterminate you? Let them go?
So you’re here to point out a problem but don’t offer a solution to said problem. Got it!
Secondly I said based on the situation and the crimes the Orcs committed it was acceptable seeing how the only other option was death. Was death an acceptable alternative?
Let me remind you that this is a video game built on the idea of war and magic and trying to hold it to constant real life standards will not always work. Perfect example are the Orc camps.
the threads are public and you do not own this one. If you don’t want someone to reply to the topic don’t make the topic.
And this is exactly why trying hold this game to real life standards doesn’t always work. There are a multitude of extenuating circumstances, such as a warmongering alien invasion.
I want claiming the high ground, only pointing out that the other person isn’t looking at the facts through an unbiased lense. If you’re going to make a thread like this listing the wrong doings of both factions you need to unbiased about it.
That it did, and I started by rebutting (maybe a bit harshly) a lot of those crimes because they didn’t make sense and showed a clear bias towards one faction and trying to place the blame somewhere else with those that belonged to the horde. My suggestions were not to add to the list but to reexamine the one he included because they weren’t crime or war crimes as he originally named the title of this thread.
I didn’t “flame” him, I certainly called out his interpretation which is what you do in a debate. Playing the victim? Where? Furthermore this wasn’t an argument, not me anyway, it was a debate on what happened and what the op saw as criminally in WoW. Now if you unwilling to have such a discussion don’t make the thread.
Such as invasions in general! This is medieval fantasy! It’s gruesome and brutal. Calling the novel “war crimes” and pretending there were any rules was a mistake. “Muh Geneva convention” is honestly cringe at this point.
The orcs were ruthless barbarians on a conquest. The humans wanted to hurt them out of revenge. There were no more rules to the situation.
The set of rules that we have in rl are not always an adequate standard to hold wow to. What would you do to a race of alien invaders, hopped up on demon blood, enslaving dragons while raising your soilders from the dead to fight you? Let them all go with a warning? Furthermore you can’t point out a problem and then offer no solution.
Destroy them. Preferably hurting them in the process.
Yeah, orcs are one of my faves in Wow, but I completely understand the plot point of humans treating them worse than animals. I would too. Is it like… a good and noble thing? Probably not. But we’re all people with emotions here. Emotions aren’t always right.
Attempted murder is if you do it but fail.
The planning of such is not yet attempted murder. That is why I am refering to it.
This is the type of cognitive dissonance that really bugs me and why I can’t take horde players seriously who bring that up all the time.
You have a literal alience force that was a week ago pillaging, burning, murdering through your kingdoms like a loctus plague.
What do people think you do with them?! Just let them continue roaming around after they have proven to be basically mass murderers? Of course you imprison them firstly.
It would be either that or kill everyone which the Alliance didn’t want to. It was an ACT OF MERCY!
The camps were there to safe them, feed them and than think about what to do with them and how.
Forced Labour is COMPLETELY fine even by the genovese convention with prioners of war as long as it is resonable. And to have them rebuild what THEY themselves destroyed doesn’t seem like an unsusual punishment.
How were you people raised? When I made a mess at home I had to clean it up myself either.
I have to admit, once I saw that the OP replied to me, and typed :
I almost wanted to warn him about what was to come…
You can not recognize that the Alliance - especially the Night Elves - ever did anything wrong on these forums, or they will descend on you like an insect swarm.
I knew the screaming meemies would come gnashing and belly aching, defending internment camps, and trying to disassociate themselves from Arthas - when even High King Anduin himself would agree with the OP, and claimed Arthas’s crimes as Alliance crimes.
Exactly. Just look at the replies from mostly Alliance supporters. They boil down to either:
Denying their action was a wrong
or
Pointing to some crime the Horde committed - as if one wrong absolves another.
A common complaint they make is:
“That’s like comparing a minor crime to a major crime!”
Well, the OP didnt add a scale or rating to each crime. It is a list. People can argue whether one event is worse than another… but the magnitude of one doesn’t remove the fact that both exist.
Just planning isn’t illegal. But the situation at question is that Garithos ‘got so far as imprisoning the elves’. I would say imprisoning a group of people you plan to execute is a ‘direct step’ to count as attempted murder.
That is the question because imprisoning them as stupid as it sounds was within the laws. He had the right to do so.
But killing would not be. Tough question here.
I’d say if he inprisoned them with the sole purpose of killing -> deathcamp
If he imprisoned them and afterwards got the idea of killing them -> not a real deathcamp but the intention of transforming it into one.
Though Garithos is a monster. He just didn’t have the chance to show it while Sylvanas did and was still supported afterwards.
So no Garithos while he wanted to, did not yet commited crimes thus the Alliance did NOT do a warcrime here. But it could have led to one.
But you can’t do stuff onto the alliance list that has not happened. Else we could add Burning of Thunderbluff there too but Sylvanas was not able to do so after Baines rescue.
I have to say I don’t really know. I never had much interest in Garithos story, so I’m just assuming here.
Also I am not very keen on trying to relativate or apologize a racist murderer.
Just saying that since he was not successfull the Alliance has yet no genocide on its card.
Pretty sure most orcs would prefer that anyway.