Crimes Committed by each Race and Faction

In order to try and help discussion and debate on the forums. I’m going to attempt to create a resource that tallies up various crimes committed by the members of each race’s faction against members of the opposing faction, and or in a systemic fashion against other races. This is by no means an authoritative list, and should I miss any, or if there is any personal bias with this post I apologize as it is not intended.

For the sake of being honest and open in my biases. I am primarily a Horde player at this given time. I simply am trying to provide a resource for debate within the forum. In particular I believe I am missing Alliance War Crimes, so please inform me of any actions that fit these criteria that can be listed.

Each Faction will be subdivided into two sections, with each race having various war crimes they have committed listed below them, as well as crimes committed by the given faction as a whole listed out in a noted location.

For the sake of definitions. I am classifying a crime of one of these states, as actions that would be considered unlawful in war, and or targeting civilian structures.

This list ‘will not’ contain actions taken by independent actors. As an example the actions of Arthas post recall by his father will not be considered actions of the Alliance. The individual must be acting on behalf of their given race’s government. In that same way the actions of Gariathros will be considered to have been taken by the Alliance. As he was their acting commander in Lordaeron. Simply because a character is a race, does not mean that they are acting under the banner of that race.

Alliance Joint Operations:

-Assault on Forsaken Fleet during the Stormheim campaign

-Slaughter of mercanaries by Arthas

-Slaughter of Alliance Troops by Arthas

-Assault on Darkspear settlements during Cataclysm campaign

-Engagements throughout the barrens to build road to Theramore during cataclysm campaign

-Attempt to kill Goblin refugees who had witnessed Thrall’s capture as they fled from Kezan

-Purge of Dalaran

-Institution of forced labor of Pandaren Villagers in landing sight in Pandaria.

-Actions taken against Vulpara in Vol’dun

-Death of Civilian populace as undertaken by Arthas

-Actions taken against Zandalari prior to officially joining the Horde though it was mitigated by Zandalar’s declaration of war against both the Alliance and Horde in Cataclysm. (The Zandalari were also aiding the Horde in direct attacks on Kul’tiras. Which had officially rejoined the Alliance by that point in time.)

-Imprisonment of Zandalari Princess. (Mitigated due to Zandalari declaration of war against both the Alliance and Horde during Cataclysm which was still ongoing during time of capture, and presence of Zul who was a known combatant)

-Forced Internment of Orcs (Please note this is due to the support for internment by member states of Stormwind, Arathi, Dalaran, Khaz’modan, Gnomeregan and Lordaeron, and Gilneas. Blood Elves and Forsaken will both also have this crime as former member states who were involved.)

-Forced Internment of Blood Elves by Gariathros.

-Attempts to knowingly kill Blood Elven Forces by Gariathros

-All actions unlawfully taken in Barrens campaign (Including Tajaro, the construction of the highway to Theramore, and various other engagements.)

-Failure to stop independent action by Stormpike Clan, and support for military action taken against the Frostwolves.

Stormwind Humans:

-Involvement in Civil War between Lordaeronean humans and Forsaken Humans

-Involvement in internment of Orcs

-Illegal spying within Orgrimmar.

-Presence of forces in lands that they are not in an active state of war with, and have not invited their presence. (EX. Presence in Northwatch Hold post destruction of Theramore)

-Refusal to attempt to allay tensions with Forsaken prior to early engagements, and support of militant groups seeking extermination as a people.

-Support for activities of Soldiers at Northwatch Hold

-Unlawful invasion of Undercity (During Wrath)

-As Theramore was effectively a subsidiary of Stormwind, the following crimes will also be applied to them but should be noted as having been taken at the discretion of Theramore.
-Construction of Highway through the barrens.

Gilneans:

-Unlawfully carrying out military campaign against allied forces. (The Horde) When the Alliance was in a state of War.

-Support for extermination of Orcish Race following their defeat during the second war.

Gnomes:

-Illegal experimentation on animals. Including, Squirrels, monkeys, and various other forms of trouble.

Draenei:

-Failure to inform allies of potential threat to safety in the form of the Legion.

Night Elves:

-Engaging non-affiliated forces during the Third war without attempting to negotiate. (Night Elves engaged Horde and Alliance forces without warning. Killing multiple soldiers.)

-Initial support for faction that caused the Sundering

-Creating an active spying ring within the ghost lands to monitor Blood Elves.

-Supporting creation of an unlawful road to support military actions and activity despite ambiguity in current status of the war. (Highway through the Barrens)

Ironforge Dwarves:

-Claiming of artifacts belonging to individual cultures.

-Military activity of Stormpike

-Military activity in Mulgore without an active state of war.

-Spying activity within Silvermoon, and support of an allied nation spying on a potential ally. (Dwarven ambassador was supporting Night Elven spying ring.)

-Supported extermination of Orcs

Lightforged Draenei:

-Use of torture on captured soldiers.

Dark Iron Dwarves:

-Pursuing war against military targets.

-Attempting to destroy the world through unleashing of Old Gods during Cataclysm by larger faction residing within Shadowforge City.

-Providing logistical support for Twilight’s Hammer Forces.

-Use of Mole machines undermining structural integrity of Civilian towns and structures in Siege of Zuldazar.

-Forced use of martial law within Ironforge during Queen Moira’s attempted ascension to Throne.

-Establishment of undesired Base camp within Zandalar.

Mechagnomes:

-Attempt to destroy the world.

Void Elves:

-Betraying oath to people and changing support for new faction knowing that they are preparing for war.

-Illegal use of magic within Silvermoon

Kul’tiran Humans

-Initial aggression taken against new Horde and forces unaffiliated with previous Horde forces.

-Devastation of land with intent of preventing Horde from building a new city. (Environmental damage in Durotar was caused by Kul’tirans. Destroying non-elven sources of lumber)

-Unlawful seizure of Theramore

-Unlawful use of Theramore as forward operating base for a war that had not been declared officially against the New Horde.

-Use of Slaves by Ashvane company.

-Use of torture by officials within Kul’tiras.

-Support for both genocide of Orcs, and Internment of Orcs following Second War.

Horde (For this list I will only be listing actions taken by New Horde. Crimes of Old Horde will be listed in Orc section, as no race save for the Orcs are members of that organization and still affiliated with faction in a playable capacity.)

-Teldrasil

-Invasion of Ashenvale during Cataclysm

-Unlawful invasion of Gilneas

-Unlawful invasion of Kul’tiras in BFA. (Not mitigated due to hostilities instigated by Proudmore. It had been 15 years since last military engagement between Horde and Kul’tiras, and hostilities were started by Horde in this circumstance.)

-Actions taken against Darkspear by Warchief Garrosh Hellscream.

-Actions taken against citizens of Orgrimmar by Warchief Garrosh Hellscream.

-Actions taken by Sylvanas against Night Elves during War of Thorns.

-Failure to halt Forsaken War crimes during engagements in Gilneas/wider Lordaeron Sub-continent. Will be listed in Forsaken Section.

-Failure to stop independent action by Warsong Clan

-Engagements with Alliance on Ashran despite signing of treaty

-Use of Mana Bomb at Theramore.

-Engagements with the Alliance in Icecrown.

-Use of Forced Labor by Forces in Pandaria.

-Kidnapping of Children to elicit use of forced labor in Pandaria.

-To explain the lack of crimes by the new Horde in this section. Most of the actions undertaken by the New Horde were undertaken by individual races without the support of the wider Horde that would be considered criminal, the Old Horde. Which will be listed out in the orcish section, and lastly they were undertaken as an act of war.

Orcs

-Forced Breeding campaigns of multiple races. (Dragons, Half Draenei by Shadow Council)

-Attempted destruction of multiple worlds.

-Destruction and active targeting of civilian targets.

-Working with world destroying entities.

-Attempts at genocide of multiple races. (Under three separate leaders with three separate circumstances, all of which were taken independently. Those being. Garrosh Hellscream, Orgrim Doomhammer, Blackhandi)

-Successful Genocide of Multiple Races (Almost every non-orc race on Draenor faced this. Simply because it failed to wipe out every member does not mean there was not a genocide.)

-Enslavement of multiple races. (Dragons, Ogres)

-Actively breaking treaties. (Warsong in Ashenvale)

-Attempted repression of allied races and return to genocidal activities under Garrosh Hellscream.

-Use and support of use of WMD’s on multiple occasions. (Scepter of Sargeras, general use of fel energies during second war, Divine Bell)

Forsaken

-Support for Orcish Internment as member of the Alliance

-Wide use of forced labor with intent of causing death. (Used in Gilneas)

-Illegal invasion of Arathi Highlands during Cataclysm.

-Illegal invasion of Gilneas during Cataclysm.

-Impressment under duress (Raising people and threatening to kill them if they do not work for you. Happened often in Cataclysm)

-Forcing Civilians to fight allies under duress prior to regaining full use of faculties. (Used on multiple occasions due to state of freshly raised undead when unleashed on allies.)

-Supporting Scientific testing on non-willing subjects which will knowingly kill them (Blight, Tabetha, ect ect)

-Knowingly creating situations which will kill prisoners of war.

-Targeting Civilians during times of war.

-Wide repression of civilian populace.

-Development of WMD’s for active use on allies/enemies.

-Threatening to kill hostage prisoners of war.

Blood Elves

-Support for Genocide of orcs and orcish internment while members of the Alliance.

-Enslavement of Mu’ru.

-Support for Azshara pre-sundering

-Creation of Arcane storm which lead to exile.

  • Actions by Kael’thas Sunstrider will not be counted as actions taken by Blood Elves as he behaved largely as an independent agent.

Goblins

-Supporting regimes which have caused genocides in material ways to allow them to continue their operations against civilian populaces. (Occurred during First, Second, and Fourth Wars, and under Garrosh Incidents)

Tauren

-No known war crimes undertaken by Tauren against Horde or Alliance Forces outside of individual actors.

Darkspear Trolls

-No known war crimes undertaken by Darkspear against Horde or Alliance forces outside of individual actors supporting overall Horde force. (Volrath in Ashran)

Zandalari Trolls

-Attempting to work with and support genocidal regime during time of war.

-Declaring war against Alliance and Horde during Cataclysm

-Systematic enslavement of Goblins of Kezan.

-Actions undertaken against Alliance independently of the Horde. (All Kul’tiras invasions take place prior to formal declaration of support for the Horde despite direct material support for engagements, and the princess was traveling with an active combatant at the time of her capture.)

-Continued political support for Zul knowing that he was an active combatant against the Alliance and Horde on multiple fronts.

Nightborne Elves

-Continued support of genocidal regime despite previous alliance with group that had crime committed against them. (Even if the Night Elves weren’t as kind to the Nightborne as the Horde, that doesn’t mean they weren’t allies and didn’t directly support their rebellion materially.)

-Initial support for Azshara Regime prior to War of the Ancients

-Abandoning allies post sundering

Vulpara
-They have done nothing wrong.

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I doubt this will “help”, as it’s basically just a box of ammunition for ***holes. But the effort is appreciated.

/whataboutism intensifies

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Both sides have jerks. It’s better to have an honest look at things while attempting to avoid bias for those who actually want to understand the lore of the game.

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A worthy effort, to be sure, if one would be objective and accurate. But that would be near impossible. I already disagree with some of the guidelines.

Arthas’s actions should be considered Alliance actions. The Alliance gave him power and position, and he used it. There were a few, like Jaina and Uther, who refused to follow him. After he returned from Northrend, instead of being met with force for disobeying his king, he was given a warm welcome into the city.

Even the current High King of the Alliance claims responsibility for Arthas’s legacy as an evil that the Alliance wrought unto the world. Just as Saurfang would tie the Horde of today to the Horde of Guldan.

So, I think Arthas and his deeds belong in the Alliance column.

Also - the Night Elves caused the whole Sundering and brought the Legion to Azeroth to begin with. Azshara was their leader, and she welcomed the Legion.

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The difference between Arthas and Gul’dan is that until his death, at no point was Gul’dan cut off from Horde resources. I actually ‘do’ count Arthas’s crimes as alliance Crimes up until he had his authority stripped by his father and was promptly ignored. Muradin and the forces under his command also didn’t commit any active war-crimes following that, so it’s a moot point since he returned as an agent of the Scourge.

Also thank you for the Night Elves! Forgot to place that in their column :smiley:

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As I said, the only thing ignored were his crimes.

A King might consider arresting his son for sinking ships and sending troops to their death. Perhaps not an execution but at least a few days in a cell. Instead, Arthas is welcomed into the city. His authority as a Prince of the Alliance is unchanged until he starts killing people. I would argue that would be a better point to cut off his actions, since he was welcomed into the city and not treated as a traitor until he was in his own city and killing his own people.

Honestly, I agree with the High King of the Alliance, and lump Arthas in with the Alliance, with little excuses. But if you want to make a cut off, I think after he kills his dad would be a more fair cut off.

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If it counts against the Night Elves, it counts against the Nightborne as well, who supported Azshara right up until the Legion planned to open a second portal in Suramar.

Also, if the crimes of Azshara are to be laid at the feet of the Night Elves that initially supported her, then rebelled upon learning the truth, then the same should be done for the Blood Elves (and maybe Void Elves?) and Kael’thas.

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I feel like this post will do exactly the opposite of that.

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Funny, that. I would disagree. Nomenclature expresses some differences.

The Horde of old remains the Horde of new - with or without a Warchief. Same goes for the Alliance with their fair haired boys.

And the kaldorei remain kaldorei.

The Highborne kaldorei who joined the Alliance in Cata are of the same kaldorei that have been in the Alliance since Vanilla, and the same kaldorei of the Kaldorei Empire under their Queen, Azshara. As monarch of the kaldorei, she welcomed the Legion unto this world.

AFTER the rebellion succeeded, the Queldorei were outcast. So, the kaldorei regime outcast the Queldorei. Later, the kaldorei welcomed fellow kaldorei who may have been alive during Azshara’s reign.

The descendants of Queldorei who the kaldorei cast out became the High Elves of Quelthalas. If the kaldorei would separate themselves from those they cast out, then that seems a fair partition for what can be called kaldorei.

I… wasn’t saying hold the Night Elves and Blood Elves accountable for the same event. I was saying to hold them to the same standard. If Azshara is a mark against the Night Elves, Kael’thas should be counted against the Blood Elves. And the poor Nightborne doubly so, for supporting Azshara, then turning around and doing it again with Elisande.

It’s the same “general populace supports their monarch, until they find out they’re consorting with the Legion and revolt” story told three times over.

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Lol … you tried so hard and came up with that?
Yea that totally justifies burning childrin and rallying up civillians in Ashenvale to murder them, building concentration camps in Darkshore and so on.

Gosh some people are really , really special.
Not even worth commenting the rest … a lot fo “Muuh Taurjo”.

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Oh. Good, then.

Surely. Kaelthas named the Sindorei, and it took a lot for the Sindorei to turn around and reject him. Same for the kaldorei with Azshara, and the Nightborne with Elisande.

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I’d be willing to give Elisande more of a pass than with Azshara or Kael. Kael and Azshara went into the deal for their own reasons, Azshara for that sweet Titan hubby and Kael for power. Overall selfish reasons. Elisande genuinely made an effort to look for another way, which may have been tampered to prevent her from finding one. Only after exhausting her options did she take the Legion’s deal.

After that? She made a lot of REALLY bad calls trying to keep the peace. Usually at the expense of the lives she was trying to protect. Whack.

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The point of this post wasn’t actually to fling feces at people or provide justification to any side. Just provide a resource for the crimes committed by both factions so people know what was done by them. Couldn’t find much for nelves so I didn’t write it down.

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Was that listed as a metric? I didn’t see justification for retribution listed as a thing. I don’t see alot of justification. I mostly see a lay out of events that asks for input to be complete.

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The camps were listed under forsaken as a matter of fact!

Without reading any posts at all- I am going to GUESS some come to defend actions or discredit or downplay. Was I correct? looks up YEP! Want to know WHY???

Because no matter what race you play in game, out of game, we’re all humans. Guess what WE do? Justify the murder of one another going back to 15,000 BC.

In warfare there are sides. Each side will preach to their populace the evils of their enemy, the need to act, and the justification for any deeds committed. Each side will demonize the enemy- as it is far easier to do anything at all to a people you dehumanize.

When one argues to justify an act- be it correct in their mind or not- someone from the opposing side is going to disagree.

THIS is directly why in the history of mankind we have very few examples where reparations actually worked as intended, helped those that should’ve been helped, or healed any scars left behind from whatever atrocities occurred.

No one is ever that saint on the hill offering a solution that brings peace and joy to all through their efforts to “right the wrongs”… because none ever will agree on what was truly “wrong” in the first place.

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I would argue that process would begin by stating and acknowledging wrongs. While some may find enjoyment in justifying every action, there is room for understanding and contrition. And that begins with acknowledgement.

Having said that… I agree…

Blizzard can make a retcon poop storm on any whim at any time. A whim that upends all attempts at gleaning a coherent lore. But if we buy into the game, it is as such.

It was not a “genocidal regime”. They declared war to reclaim territories that were lost by trolls and they did that because in prophecies Zandalar was meant to sink to the bottom of the ocean.

That is ancient history. Not “systematic enslavement”. Systematic enslavement is what goblins are doing now to each other. Or the trolls that live on Kezan currently.

But it takes place after Alliance launches their war campaign on Zandalar, slew entire crew on the warship and capture it’s captain.

Anduin did the same to Genn “Slap on the wrist”. Besides, it’s hard to condemn your own people when they believed that their own home will be destroyed.

The only thing that I’m salty about is that the Blood Elves have so few atrocities listed.