unescapable
broken 1-shot
spell reflect on steroids.
goodbye pillars.
All 4 mage and shaman skills feel so underwhelming in comparison. lol
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You find enjoyment in being locked out of 3/4 of your cool new abilities? Setting minmaxing aside I can’t even try these abilities out in a raid just to see how they feel 
how is that fun to you?
I enjoy mythic raiding and pushing high keys. Arbitrarily making me worse in one is not my definition of fun. Having my character feel significantly worse or less fun to play as I switch game modes is not fun.
Kyrian shaman is literally useless in arena, you might as well take the ability off your bars. Infinitely worse than necrolord, the ability that makes ele good in arena. It’s a totem with 5 health that is killed instantly by anyone over 1600 rating.
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If you’re insisting that you must pick the covenant that gives up bleeding edge DPS, that is your personal choice. Unless you are planning on pushing +10 Mythic Keys or raiding past Heroic, it doesn’t matter. My guess is the portion of people complaining about this and engaging seriously in that content is less than 5%.
it matters for anyone that plays PvP
I have needed to use 0 of my abilities in a raid to consider how they would actually play out in that setting.
With the systems as implemented, pick your favorite, I guess. I’m sorry that’s not very fun for you. I’m not very sympathetic with your plight because I don’t play for top 100, but I do honestly feel bad for you that you don’t think it will be fun.
I can’t say anything about arena, or shaman. I hope they buff the ability so it’s more usable in the arena.
Edit:
Optimization isn’t that bleeding edge at +10, it’ll be a ways past that.
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Then choose the best min max convenant for your class. Or don’t. The choice is up to you.
I’m not calling you out, it’s a fact. I don’t play Mythic or PVP. I play to enjoy the game, “cool” abilities mean nothing to me, except the transportation buff for Venthyr plus I like the Covenant. So that’s why I picked them.
I was sticking up for you, calm down.
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So you know exactly how your abilities will play out in a +20 key, when the timer is so tight that a single missplay will mean missing it, when theres a certain mob that hits so hard that it needs to be killed in under 15 seconds so you need huge prior damage or your tank is dead and you can take a covenant for that, or you can take a covenant that will help you meet the massive healing check earlier in the dungeon? You know exactly how each of your abilities will react to these situations? LOL.
My favorite for m+ or my favorite for raid? For resto or enh? Venthyr feels like trash on resto but is pog on enh. Feels like trash on single target and I don’t even want to press it but feels amazing in aoe. Lol why you acting like this is a super static choice? Do you only play a single spec in a single game mode and never change anything about your toon? That must suck to go through the game like that…
Or hopefully they just unlink abilities from covenants /shrug so I don’t feel gimped playing my toon. I’d love to go Kyrian on my alt just to try it out, but I can’t because I want to arena on him. And I know if I switch it’s a 2 week arbitrary grind back.
Sorry… I also play to enjoy the game, your comment just sounded snarky
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Np, I get it, I apologize as well. Didn’t mean it that way. 
Re: You find enjoyment in being restricted: Yes! Yes, people find enjoyment in levels of restriction every day, there’s a reason we frequently complain things like God Mode in games are actually boring. Part of the fantasy of an RPG is having a character whose past choices matter. This is a perfectly valid desire and GD has never understood this.
The complaints about leveling being meaningless are tied pretty closely to everything else they’ve done in making talents and abilities changeable on the fly.
Now, is this a good enough reason to restrict things mechanically? I don’t know if it is. I think that’s an argument of numbers at the end of the day. If it’s ruining the game for enough people, pull that ripcord, I guess. Personally, I was against the idea of covenant powers beforehand, but I’m enjoying the actual implementation now that it’s here. If it gets removed I won’t be furious – I already had my heart broken by the ability to change talent and spec whenever you want wherever you want, I don’t expect much meaningful choice in WoW anymore. I am used to thinking of it as a lobby game and the levels are just a weak pretense.
But yes, it is perfectly valid to enjoy facing certain restrictions.
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A +20 key is not a raid.
We can talk about +20s though. Presumably, you will be able to see how well your current setup is working on the way up to +20, unless you’re planning on just getting carried to that point.
In that situation, yes, I could certainly see in a +10 how my ability would likely play out in a +20.
Pick which content you want to prioritize. That’s how the systems are set up.
Pick which spec you want to prioritize. That’s how the systems are set up.
I play the game in the systems as designed. I change my talents at a whim in Rested areas.
Edit: I’m not making a value statement about the systems as designed being good or bad. I’m enjoying them and don’t want them to be changed.
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See every class in every serious single-player RPG, especially kits in Baldur’s Gate. The entire POINT is that there are strengths and weaknesses.
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pretty much this, i enjoy each class/spec playing differently based on choices.
why ya’ll acting like not wanting to be a cookie cutter gingerbread man is a bad thing? each ability has strengths, each one has weaknesses it’s up to us to decide which we enjoy and can play around with more.
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At some point, through the story they should have the player unite all the covenants. And then depending on who you soulbind, then that’s the covenant abilities you get. No costs to change soulbinds
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What if a person enjoys all content equally ?
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Show me that person.
I absolutely love M+. I like raiding slightly more. If I had to pick one, I’d choose raiding. That choice does not lock me out of M+, at worst it makes me slightly less effective in that content.
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It’s not bleeding edge dps and I don’t think it’s 5%.
2753 guilds killed Mythic N’Zoth. Yes, it was a long tier, but typically about 1500-1700 guilds kill mythic end boss. There are MANY more that push into mythic to a lesser degree.
If that’s 5% of the playerbase then it’s still big enough to deserve being catered to, especially when it does not come at the expense of anyone else.
As far as keys go… well… there were over 1.4 million keys of +10 or higher done last tier alone. Granted, many of those have repeat players, but you are still talking about an enormous amount of content done by an enormous number of players.
This isn’t bleeding edge; this is basic functionality.
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Hi, nice to meet you. I enjoy raiding and M+ and wouldn’t want to do one without the other.
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Same difference lol. I can’t test the other abilities anywhere.
No, you won’t. I can tell you what every single mob in every SL dungeon will do, which mechanics need to be stopped, how to stop them, which ones I can let through, what kick rotation we need, what cc and what skips we need. What I can’t tell you is if I will need 2% more damage on a +20 than a +19 to kill the mob before my tanks defensives run out. I can’t tell you if I will have enough healing and can go with extra damage for this key, but one layer up I will need that extra healing. If you’ve never done high keys you won’t understand this, I get it.
Garbage system. This is 100% a copout answer when you couldn’t come up with anything else.
Right here. I enjoy all 3 parts of the game, although I’m significantly worse at arena.
Picking a single target ability for m+ feels like gutter trash.
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Most of the problems min-maxers are having wtith Covenants are self imposed. Stop chasing the numbers on a meter and those self imposed problems will go away.
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