So essentially what you guys want is…
1 new talent row added to each class.
4 new reps to grind for fluff items.
Sounds boring as hell to me.
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… Let’s try that a second time shall we…
Also what you are asking for is
- one talent choice to be made at the start of the expac then never again
- one rep to grind for the rest of the expac that is tied to your choice in part 1.
Sounds far worse.
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Let’s not forget Blizzard will 100% nerf/buff some after launch, they won’t magically give us a free card to go and change covenants.
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Yea imagine picking echoing void as a covenant then it being nerfed as hard as it was 2 weeks into 8.3 and having to start on the twilight dev covenant then they nerf that one too with the target cap.
I’m not saying nerfs were not justified (although echoing void was too far as it is no longer worth having even on tanks) but having the rug pulled from under you and needing to start from scratch will happen and will suck.
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In contrast to what we have right now where you do the exact same thing, just that once your covenant gets nerfed (or you get declined invites for keys) you have to pay a penalty and re-grind everything?
Sounds fun!!!
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I’ve read that and they’re wrong. Not in their assertion that precise balance is nigh impossible but in their conclusion that because of this difficulty meaningful choice cannot exist. How do I know this conclusion is invalid? Because the game functions on a fundamental level with every character making an impossible to balance meaningful choice- and it always has! People who are truly committed to being the most optimal at every activity already level multiple classes to prepare for individual boss metas, and most of them think nothing of race changing for even the smallest of advantages on a fight. And it has been this way for a very long time, yet we have not declared the choice of class to be detrimental or without meaning.
In making a compelling game world balancing the options is a very, very important thing. But it is not the only thing. If it was then WoW would have died long ago from the class imbalances .
What you seem to not understand still is that classes do not equal covenants. One will be with you until the end of wow, the other will be gone in two years. A choice that is supposed to be made for story purposes should not include player power. The power should be a separate choice entirely.
Races are ballanced fairly close already to the point where unless you are pushing for world first they don’t matter. However covenants will most assuredly not be ballanced as closely.
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You keep putting picking a class and picking a covenant in the same boat. This is wrong.
Picking a class is simply a core part of the game, you literally can’t play the game if you don’t pick a class.
You can still play the game after picking a covenant, even if you end up picking the wrong one. Picking a covenant is not a choice for many players simply because the system does not allow you to really make a decision. You default to the best performing option, effectively removing the choice. This isn’t some wild science or whatever, it’s just basic common sense! If you are part of the players that do not care about picking the best covenant, this is completely fine, however you can’t ignore the players who wish to have the freedom to swap the abilities.
Meaningful decisions in an RPG game should be about the story and the content you unlock. Tying character power will inevitably lead to frustration and make the experience overall worse than it can be for no reason for a lot players. This is impossible to deny.
Solutions offered to counter this issue still leaves this aspect intact. It’s all about fully giving players their agency back. Not just botching it by fixing a few systems (see: weekly chest and legendaries) and then introducing new systems (covenants) that directly goes against the other quality of life changes.
4 Likes
You can debate whether or not a covenant SHOULD represent a meaningful choice, but that is largely going to come down to opinion and which makes for a fine discussion. This is entirely different than saying that meaningful choices are a fallacy and can’t actually exist. That argument is faulty for the reasons already given.
But in the context of wow we can say there is no meaningful choice. The story of wow is not about our characters. Our characters are basicly background characters to the story of main npcs. Nothing a player does will ever effect the story. Games with meaningful choice change the story as it progresses. Wow is a rpg just like call of duty is.
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It seems from the latest poll a lot of people are unhappy with the current system. It’s time to get loud and get mad.
This proposed system cannot go through, it’s absolute madness
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Yep
Abilities on a talent row when?!
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Entire guilds have race changed and faction changed for this specific reason. What are you on about?
Edit: there is no meaningful choice in borrowed power systems.
Where is this poll? I need to go vote in it and tell everyone I know about it
It’s already led to tedious work arounds- max leveling multiple versions of the same class. While at the same time burning people out because of the redundance.
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It’s over now, but it was pretty skewed.
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never give up
never stop fighting
we will get our abilities swappable
down with the current system
up with the greatness of the incoming fixed system (hopefully before x.2 patch this time)
3 Likes
Always give up
Always surrender
Abilities are not meant to be swapped
Keep the current system
Keep essences and corruption in shadowlands
I’d be unironically totally okay with keeping essences around. Why get rid of them? I don’t think they are awful.
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Finally someone with some brain cells in this discussion. I don’t want to have to know every in and out of my class to be a top parser