Covenant Abilities should be a new talent row

Mythic+ (or more specifically any infinite difficulty system) is a special case.

By design, there is no “beating” it or being good enough. The can just gets kicked down the road to the next key level. And no matter what the balance spotlight will shine harder and harder on any imbalance the higher you go in infinite levels.

Right now it’s mythic+, but they could slap infinite scaling on anything and it’s the same. They could put it on dailies and all of a sudden +46 dailies have a strict tight meta you need to follow or gtfo.

All I’m saying is that systems should never be balanced by stuff that is achievable by everyone. If +25 is about the ceiling through most seasons, then they should look at what makes those specs succesful.

Game should also be balanced around cutting edge raiders.

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Let’s see:

Extremely high uncapped aoe.

Healer with very high dps and a toolkit that lets it actually use it.

Dps with many interrupts and psuedo interrupts, and immunity cheesing cooldowns.

I’m more or less inclined to agree, if you balance around the lower end the top end content will be too easy and be completed far too quickly.

Aside from balance issues this much time and effort shouldn’t be put into more rental crap that’s gonna disappear next xpac.

That’s my biggest problem with all this. We haven’t had new real abilities or talents in years.

This is another reason I’m rallying around making this a new talent row. Why make these cool and fun abilities just to get rid of them at the end of the expansion? Seems entirely unnecessary and like you said we are well overdue for a new talent row…

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Im not sure what your point is. All of these things seem excellent to me. Maybe give strong utility instead of pseudo interrupts

I think this is a very real feeling.

We haven’t had anything added to our toolkit in years, at least not most of us.

We want progression of character. The kind that really means something. A permanent addition. Something we know will stick around.

I just want new stuff. Not new stuff that’s new for awhile and then goes away. That doesn’t feel meaningful.

We’ve basically been languishing in a lot of “stuff” but without any value added long term.

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They need to understand just adding some permanent stuff back that they removed isn’t enough. We need new things.

Taking my toys away then giving them back 5 years later isn’t a gift.

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I don’t even think they are “buzzwords” - I think they’re just words with different interpretations.

To me - having covenant abilities be on a talent row and freely swappable ADDS Player Agency and Meaningful Choice to the game. But that’s because I’m ok with the meaning of our choices being applied to each piece of content we play.

Other people feel that in order for choice to have meaning - it has to be more punishing and apply more broadly. Same term - but with different criteria behind it.

Neither is wrong (since there isn’t some canonical definition with explicitly listed criteria) - but it’s important to understand the differences.

Also - an issue with simply making the abilities another talent row is their interaction with the soulbinds/conduits.

The whole covenant would need to be shifted to a talent row, with each piece being unlocked once you complete each covenants’ storyline in order to preserve the system being put into the game.

There are also MMO’s that don’t punish you and go in the other direction in terms of restrictions.

Like FFXIV - they let you play all classes/specs on a single character so that you don’t have to keep releveling through the same zones over and over again.

Bingo.

The only way a system like this would make sense is in a free to play game, where they’re after your time as much as possible.

Because the simple solution is to level and use 4 of the same class to play the game fully and optimally - which quadruples the time played.

In a subscription based game - having systems like this is disrespectful.

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Take a look at corruption.

Now, does the prospect of Covenant Balance still seem like a capable goal with blizzard at the helm?

Now imagine getting corruption and changing corruption was a far longer and more arduous task like covenant’s puport to be.

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Can you reference what document the RPG diety you worship stated this as fact?

Or is this just your opinion?

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Yeah World of Warcraft itself …duh it why you are always paying gold to change Azerite traits not freely doing so , infact it was suppose to be permanent

"Choice " can be referenced from any US or UK dictionary

I don’t even plan on changing my covenant since I play with a more laid back RP mentality - but I think that putting in restrictions like this actually takes away meaningful choice for players like yourself that enjoy the higher end types of content.

So you’re using WoW as the basis for what all RPGs should be like?

The WoW that had the flexibility of having tier set bonuses change when you swapped specs? The WoW that had your Artifact weapon pick up where you left off when you switch back to a spec you player previously?

Sounds like these are the WoW RPG features players are asking to be applied to the Covenants.

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No , I used wow as an example

There are extreme forms of RPG like Dark souls , Rust , ESO where there are perma death , lootable dead players , thievery systems , professions that actually impactfuly e.t.c

Blizzard has cut a lot of corners to eventually end up with a compromise

But you said

As though there was one “right”/“correct” version of an RPG.

Now you’re contradicting yourself listing multiple examples - while there also exist examples like FFXIV that go in the other direction that provide a lot more flexibility than WoW does.

Sounds like you’re trying to state things with some kind of authority you clearly don’t have, and worst of all - without having a decent argument to back it up.

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Yes RPGs is suppose to be about permanent choices, you cannot go back to the past to change your decision because you messed up.

Blizzard is doing exactly that with Covenants whats the problem ?

That’s your opinion - not a fact. You don’t have some magical authority to make statements like that and act as though they’re written in stone somewhere.

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