The freedom to pick anything , anytime you want which will have no consequences doesn’t do any impact and doesn’t make it a choice. It makes it optional.
You need to be punished for picking the wrong one. That how an RPG is and that how it should be .
Or just pick a covenant that is best at end game content like everyone else. Just like everyone picks Horde.
Needlessly rude and condescending at any opposing criticism, a classic narcissist in action! Oh well… Guess I’ll give my point of view so you can provide your great insight.
Right now we can only pick one Covenant, and then we’re done. So from there, your choice is done, you’re locked on your 2 new spells, it’s staying that way for the next 2 years. Makes sense, right?
So I see a few issues with this.
So, what if we simply allowed the abilities, at least the class ones, to be swapped at will?
If we look at all the players that are not on the boat. Would they be affected ? I personally don’t believe so. If they don’t care about empowering their character in the right way, why does it matter if they get to pick their class ability all of a sudden? It won’t change how they viewed the system in the first place.
So basically, I see this as two options:
Does that reasoning makes sense to you? If not, could you explain yours?
It would be very appreciated!
I know some people have prepped for shadowlands by leveling 3-4 of the same class.
Well now I’m disappointed.
I had hoped Aneris would have graced us with his massive intellect to give insights to us poor plebs incapable of adaptivity. 
Yo dude, this is some of the most truest stuff I read on these forums here today. Thank Batman sane players still exist in General Forums.
I’m getting real sick of all the developer apologists lately that constantly flood the forums. Thank you for a breath of fresh air and keep fighting this nonsense. 
It’s not meaningful choice, its the meta choice. Its such bad design to have player power tied into aesthetic, story and character background choices in a multiplayer game. I would rather the abilities be their own system entirely and the covenant be your own and now permanent choice with unique evolving story as the xpac goes on so I actually care about the covenant I join and not what ability it gives me.
Upvoted the OP. Abilities being tied to Covenants is the antithesis of what an RPG should be about. Covenant choice should be made based on story and character fit, not out of some BS min/maxing crap. These abilities will end up spoiling whatever good things Blizzard may do with Covenants, and it’s sad that they can’t see this.
Why do you assume theres going to be a best talent for every situation with absolutely no drawbacks? If Blizzard wasn’t wasting their time trying to balance these, they could make them so that each one was strong in a specific situation - aoe, ST, utility, resource generation, and make it so that when you looked at an encounter you had benefits and serious drawbacks.
You don’t seem to understand that most of the high end players swap their talents, essences and corruptions almost every fight. I swap my stats, talents, essences, corruptions before every dungeon I enter, based on whether I want dmg, healing, do I need to heal a specific mechanic, does my group need more dmg from me to time the key, do I need more spot healing or aoe healing, etc etc. There’s a lot of choice that goes into it. You are taking that away with locking covenants. Doesn’t matter what situation I’m entering I have this one same old boring ability. This is poor design, not “Making it an RPG again”.
How does tailoring my character to a specific encounter dilute adaptability. You literally have it backwards. Math exists you know? So there is no adaptability to an ability that mathematically is worse when you hit 3 targets. X ability does 5 dmg. Y ability does 2 dmg to all targets. Don’t press X ability when you get to 3 targets. Explain the adaptability of this to me. There is none. You just don’t press your ability, there’s no choice to be made. Come up with a better argument than that, because it is extremely weak.
You are sorely mistaken if you think that is why people love awakened. They love it because it gives them more choice in how they run the dungeon.
See this is why I’m gaming less this mentality of “the majority of people will pick whatever is best for X” thus its not meaningfull…
Well heres the thing not everyone will just like not every barbarin in diablo 2 was a ww and not every paladin was hammer build… yes majority will do whatever that isn’t a reason to remove it all togeather…
kinda why i’m starting to hate mmos people can’t accept the only thing in a mmo that is different than a rpg is you get multiplayers online thats it … there is no major difference outside of population between the to… it being a talent roll wouldn’t change ppl cookie cutting either … it just makes it easier for them … really if they are going to cookie cut as in most games with options chances are cookie cutters will suck more compared to someone who customizes the choices they have for their playstyle… anyways
A new talent row is long overdue. Blizz stop being scared!
Agree! Preach it!
This whole thread is a hoot.
Blizzard is chasing a pipe dream by trying to create meaningful choices, and the people who want them will never understand why they’ll fail time and again.
These kinds of choices are excellent mechanics in a great many games but not in games with a competitive environment.
I think, honestly, that everyone looks at talents and says “well it’s all just cookie cutter and it’s boring now.” The current talents were meant to change that, but they didn’t, because we were able to ascertain the best possible choices for each situation. The same will happen with Covenants, and that’s what no one is seeing. It sounds good on paper because you’ll “have to choose what you like” but that’s just not the case.
Plenty of people choose their azerite traits and talents based on what they want, not based on what’s best, right now. Plenty of people will do that with covenants, too. Nothing has really changed, per se, in the mid-range of people who want to play “a certain way.” The big difference is that IcyVeins/WoWHead/[Strat Website] will now have a list of covenants and have “optimal suggestions” that everyone will go with for the most part.
Six months into Shadowlands and covenants are going to be no more meaningful than talents because people are still going to go to the internet, look up what’s “overall best” and choose that. Then the people who want meaningful choices will complain that covenants have become “meta.”
Personally I just don’t understand people who want to turn WoW into a non-competitive single-player game. That’s all these changes really represent; a move towards a design philosophy more reminiscent of single-player games than of competitive online games. WoW will always be a competitive online game, whether that’s through PvP (direct competition), the world first races (direct competition), M+ (cooperative competition), or even just pushing into higher content as you go. The game will always prefer that you are optimally set up, and so will the players you end up playing with.
I just don’t see the value in trying to add things like covenants when they impact performance. It just doesn’t make sense, honestly.
Not everyone follows the cookie-cutter meta.
That said I bet that a lot of people, I might even suggest the majority, have utilized the save feature to save before making a choice in a game in case they don’t like the outcome and they can go back an hour and try again.
I mean there’s an entire feature built into a significant number of RPGs called “Quick Save” and “Quick Load” meant to literally expedite the process. It’s exceedingly common.
Hard pass.
Plenty of RPGs do not punish you outside of story twists. I see no reason to start now.
This is my favorite spin, apparently there are dozens! of very successful mmorpgs that do it! Why shouldn’t blizzard copy these mythical MMORPGs that definitely exist?
This needs to be changed. Telling you right now I’m not starting another expansion with a system that’s against the players when that information has been given since the Alpha.
I mean I just don’t understand some people’s mindset, either.
You need to be punished for picking the wrong one.
It’s like, alright, the language alone is questionable on that. It’s focusing far too hard on making sure you miss out than making sure you have fun.
Which, like, even then. It might make sense if you were making a short term choice and had to deal with a short term problem, I guess? It makes no sense when there are four choices and three distinct end game play styles to account for. No matter what you do you’re picking “the wrong one” in some aspect.
That doesn’t make it a more exciting choice, it makes it a more disappointing choice.
When did visuals start taking precedence over all other aspects of the game?
This is the first I’ve heard an opinion as ridiculous as “I will/won’t pick it because of how it looks” being taken this seriously.
Is this how you handle other decisions that effect performance like Class and Spec choices as well? Honestly, the first time I’ve ever heard of such nonsense.
Have you been kicked from PuGs for not having the correct Azerite this expansion?
Who the heck is even going around policing that for all 36 specs?
If the key is a high pushing group, absolutely.
Some azerite traits are legitimately inting.
So way beyond a 15 where Blizzard doesn’t care or balance because it’s an infinite scaling system?
Realistically Blizzard should balance around the extreme high end, since that’s where the game is being pushed and it actually matters.
The lore, RP stuff, all that stuff should be for the lower end. The game should not be balanced around people who won’t notice the difference.
I mean you have people begging for DH nerfs and 80% of them don’t even know why DH is good.