Copying meta doesnt make you good or skilled

[Rankin-shandris (Rankin)]

@Zelse-eonar

Yes, the hardcores hated it the most.

I dunno where you’re getting this from. Most hardcore players don’t care about casual players. It’s the wannabe hardcore players that you have to watch out for.

[Ddzz-illidan]

@Zelse-eonar

@Rankin-shandris

The community mostly approved of LFR and LFD. It was only a few toxic individuals who hated it and keep trying to get those systems removed.

Yes, the hardcores hated it the most.

@Ddzz-illidan

If you’re holding a grudge

Well, yes and no. I can say better things about your server than mine, because in mine, there are some very controlling and manipulative people who would do anything they can to cajole you into participating with them and helping THEM get what they want. Being a LFR hero is a slap in their faces(just the way they would take it). How dare they get to be in a raid the way they want to do it and not with us where they could get better loot(but not before we get ours first)!

And I understand to be a hardcore raider, you have to give up your own personal choices. But you would be ostracized for not being ambitious otherwise. You wouldn’t have much in the way of “friends”. This is riding on tangents regarding peer pressure and social engineering, which hits the younger folk harder. I’m in my mid-30’s so I’m a lot better adjusted to go with the non-meta.

I’m uh, pretty hardcore and I don’t give up much at all. It’s weird hearing you talk about the community I’m involved in - I’m learning a lot of things about us that I didn’t know (or ever see)

[Zelse-eonar (Zelse)]

I’ll buy that, and more than for a dollar. There is a brand of hardcore that practically exists on the fringe where no other WoW player can ever reach. These are the 1% folk, where nothing affects them no matter what. They don’t care about getting more people in the club; rather, they’d want LESS people in the club. The less people in the club, the more prestigious and powerful of each of the members. That takes this to a level that’s not necessarily responsible and healthy for most adults.

I knew guilds that worked this way in my time. We all know about these “inner circles” these said guilds would have. The only difference is: the inner elites want more bodies and more manpower to run them multiple raids and doing the harder work. That’s not easily done running non-meta stuff, and they don’t understand nor appreciate you’re doing it for your own enrichment of challenge.

I’m thankful LFD and LFR exists. Before they came along, dealing with opportunistic users was often your only option for expanding into the endgame. And pugging is an equally terrible evil as well. In a raid-or-die arrangement, it was too powerfully convincing to resist. So in relevant essence, the decision to go non-meta probably hasn’t been made better in these days, when in times past, you would have went meta or QQ.

@Ddzz-illidan

I’m uh, pretty hardcore and I don’t give up much at all.

I kinda mean things like minimum raid attendance, role/class/spec, DKP/Loot Council/GM Dictation stuff, and especially back in the earlier days. The more hardcore you are, the more you get told to jump with your ready reply of how high. You get asked to do things and you better do it or it’s QQ. And what I was also saying that not wanting to go through all that makes you insignificant in the community. Everyone wants to be a star lol. Everyone wants everyone else to approve of them. Basic human nature and all that sultry jazz.

[Voxplaga-ravencrest (Voxplaga)]

@Ràlph-barthilas

Multiple times in the forums, discords and WoW related places there have been people who quite clearly implied that copying meta makes you “good”, “knowledgeable”, “means you research and spend effort therefore good”, “pulling your own weight” etc

I’ve never seen this. Ever.

[Ddzz-illidan]

@Zelse-eonar

I kinda mean things like minimum raid attendance, role/class/spec, DKP/Loot Council/GM Dictation stuff, and especially back in the earlier days. The more hardcore you are, the more you get told to jump with your ready reply of how high. You get asked to do things and you better do it or it’s QQ. And what I was also saying that not wanting to go through all that makes you insignificant in the community. Everyone wants to be a star lol. Everyone wants everyone else to approve of them. Basic human nature and all that sultry jazz.

I don’t think “hey we play on Tuesdays, don’t try your RP spec on 19 other peoples’ time, and the loot that drops belongs to bettering the group” are bad expectations of a team. You put such a sour spin on what hundreds of thousands of people enjoy lol

[Nippyss-barthilas (Nippyss)]

I think people are getting this whole thing backwards

they keep acting like these elitist jerks are hunting them down in the streets reminding them they have a bad build and they won’t be able to raid because they’re black listed.

when in reality it more so when you join a progression build, you join and if you want to raid you have to meet the requirements of the raid - these are set by the community.
I’m almost 100% sure that when you have this stuff on farm you’re going to be more than welcome to go a meme build.

So basically people are complaining about being gate kept from the first 2 kills of a boss

Like it’s not even as bad as that, when I did progression at the start of this patch and completed the raid on heroic I was using an unholy death knight with the meta build

on my hunter I did the raid as survival with a guild that had it on farm

[Ràlph-barthilas]

@Cäynä-hyjal

I couldn’t careless about meta. I play what ever class/spec I enjoy. Take Mage I’ve always played Arcane even when Fire was much better because I simply don’t enjoy Fire.

Exactly yet there are people that would refuse to bring you to raid if you played arcane.

And let’s say I would understand that in a world first guild, but when some guild it clearing mythiz nzoth months after world first then clearly such level of tryhardness and toxicity does nothing but only make the people who see that as normal become toxic, they clearly have far bigger issues to fix than someone not playing fire if they are that behind.

It is like if a normal guild started having ridiculous requirements while they clear the raid 2 months after its launch, that toxic environment created only exists to create the illusion of hardcore and skill

[Nippyss-barthilas (Nippyss)]

Like don’t take this the wrong way but you don’t really to much end game content

The view of these things changes dramatically when you have to take game systems into account

[Ràlph-barthilas]

@Shrew-kul-tiras

So what exactly qualifies someone as a skilled player. Outside of their meta class spec.

Read the OP, i explained in detail

@Axeperson-agamaggan

and that’s fine. but you shouldn’t expect people who want to try as hard as they can to conform to your idea of fun either.

Trying as “hard” to the point of benching arcane mages because they play fire while you are clearly world first isnt rly trying hard, it is just being a toxic person/guild.

I can accept world first guilds obsessing over min maxing and fotm, it is a race and there;s money.

But if you do that when you are miles away from such a race, then you are being toxic for no tangible benefit other than a weak ego that needs to believe they are hardcore to feel they have self worth whcih is incredibly unhealthy.

A normal guild is allowed to demand fotm too, doesnt mean it is right or that it shoudl happen.

@Dreadsurge-sargeras

But you have no reason to play Survival or Arcane and be skilled at them when you could be playing Beast Mastery or Fire at about 70% of that level of efficiency and pump out 30% more DPS in many situations.

Or you know, they can stick to survival or arcane cuz they enjoy the gameplay, the person is still just as skilled.

@Dreadsurge-sargeras

And believe me; Fire is an extremely necessary spec for most serious raid groups.

Considering all specs have cleared even mythic it seems clear to me that it is far from necessary but tryhards create an environment where they pretend ti is necessary therefore becoming toxic.

[Monori-bleeding-hollow]

You realize that people tend to sim their gear not copy right?

[Messytoilet-frostmourne]

And it’s always by the same person, Ralph, this man needs to be banned for spamming.

[Monori-bleeding-hollow]

He still doesn’t beat out my third alt that hasn’t been played in months so for now I’m safe wipes sweat off brow.

Seriously i do not get him at all. He has so much rage and I just don’t get it. He puts anyone who disagrees with him on ignore and I know I’m not the only person who has offered to help out but I doubt he has seen any of them lol.

[Monori-bleeding-hollow]

@Zelse-eonar

Believe me, I don’t give those who follow the meta any more distinction than what’s deserved. A “that’s nice” pat on the head and off they go. They think it’s challenging enough to beat the game on Easy difficulty faster and better than everyone else, never mind exploring Normal, or Hard, or Very Hard. That’s the nerve you struck. You made them feel smaller in a bigger universe of challenge.

You play a destro lock … outside bm hunter and fire mage can’t get much more meta than that.

[Monori-bleeding-hollow]

@Zelse-eonar

Now it may not be discussed or debated aloud, but that’s the resident attitude.

So you read minds?

[Zelse-eonar (Zelse)]

I really play Aff. Destro is more efficient for knocking out dailies.

[Windsplitter-nagrand]

Haha that’s just too funny

[Triksi-wyrmrest-accord]

@Ràlph-barthilas

A normal guild is allowed to demand fotm too, doesnt mean it is right or that it shoudl happen.

This thread feels like you have a problem with Guilds/Raid Groups setting the bar for entry or having these expectations based on meta classes and builds and not necessarily meta itself.

[Mellin-bleeding-hollow]

I always love reading the daily Ralph threads at my desk in the morning before I start work for the day. It’s quite a way to start off my morning

[Cäynä-hyjal (Cäynä)]

Oh you aren’t wrong. I don’t do much end game stuff now but my outlook wouldn’t change if I did. The Mage example I used was from when I was doing guild raiding from late Cata into MoP. GM ask me to try Fire for one raid so I re-gemmed and enchanted for Fire and tried. First thing next day I reset everything for Arcane and told GM I wasn’t going to be playing Fire.

[Altash-illidan]

Another quality Ralph bait thread.