First it was factions, then it was elves, now it’s Thalassian Elves. The goal posts have moved three times in this very conversation, so I’m going to continue to compare Void Elves to everyone, not just Blood Elves who themselves can have blue hair now.
They all still have this same color, regardless of what you interpret the purpose of said color to be.
I personally saw it as a nod towards the Highborne.
Has the goal post moved or can situations be discussed under the umbrella of a topic each with their own context?
Specifically in terms of comparing VEs infringing on the BE theme and using NEs or any other non Thalassian race to justify that infringement seems extremely disingenuous and non sensical.
What do NEs having traits you want on a VE have to do with the infringement that creates on the BE main visual theme? And if those traits already exist on these other races you want to bring into the equation, why not just play those?
The goalposts have moved. Multiple times.
I am arguing based off of parity amongst every race. Holding Void Elves up to arbitrary and uneven standards seem extremely disingenuous and nonsensical.
Not to mention that Blood Elves and Void Elves already share hair colors, so they don’t really fit your standards of separation either.
You mentioned Elves, I demonstrated that the other Elves all already have some variant of Blonde. You then backpedaled onto Thalassians, who also share hair colors now. At this point it’s becoming gatekeeping specific colors.
I actually have alts of each Elven race, not that it’s really a relevant point to address. That aside I’m arguing parity amongst all races, not just adding/gatekeeping options to favor a particular race(Blood Elves).
Blonde isn’t the determining factor of generic Elf in the way BEs have the regular generic Elf brand as their main visual theme so yes that situation exists in the same breath I would say that since the opening of a second visual theme for VEs that gifted VEs non Void Elf skin tones, that now the hair options are the last remaining factor to uphold the BE visual themes distinctiveness.
I don’t think throwing other non Thalassian races into the mix when talking about VEs infringing on BEs visual theme as a way to justify VEs infringing further on that visual theme, does what you think it does. I think its rather transparent that you’re now comparing two different things, as in what does NEs having blonde hair mean in terms of VEs infringing on the BE visual theme? And also you open yourself up to the question of why don’t you just play a NE? You brought them into it and I don’t find it beneficial to do so but if you are going to say here is this race with all the traits I want on VEs, and the point of contention is VEs getting those traits, the obvious valid question would be for me to ask why don’t you just concentrate on NEs then for the traits and qualities you find so important?
I feel like this is one of the common pro HE tactics to take opposition to VEs receiving the full entirety of the BE theme as somehow trying to keep VEs down, not only am I in a plethora of other spaces supporting other races for various wow communities, but neither is my opposition to VEs receiving further options that would infringe on the last of the Blood Elf visual theme somehow arguing against VEs receiving more options.
By all means more void options, but thats not what you want to hear so you took it and state that you’re “arguing for parity among all races” as if I am not, which I am you just don’t see that more Void options is more options I guess?
Finally to bring this point up in this since you don’t recognize arguing for Void options as arguing for more options if you don’t think I argue for parity among the races.
Even if I didn’t argue for VEs to receive more, why should they receive more impactful customization and the same number of new options that was supposed to breathe life into the core races?
Case in point. Thank you.
Oh, it does. I am comparing every race evenly, while you are setting different standards for different races, which is not objective.
A. I do play Night Elves, just as I play Void Elves and Blood Elves.
B. What I play isn’t relevant nor is my playing a Night Elf going to negate anything. If this were the case, you’d be perfectly content with playing a Void Elf for your second theme and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
C. I am an avid supporter of further Night Elf additions, just as I am of Void Elves and Blood Elves.
The addition of one or two hair colors is not the determining factor in racial identity as I’d hope you’re aware.
More void options are perfectly fine too in addition or one or two natural options, which is parity.
You’re most certainly not supporting parity here.
You are literally trying to disadvantage one race, be it one or all of them. That is actually supporting disparity.
As for your quote, players don’t really get to dictate what passes for a full past and I agree with Nico.
Here’s a picture;
‘Impact’ =/= hard numbers.
Most core races got a lot of development and aside from a few key requests, they’re pretty well off.
They only core race with any complaint of having less options than Void Elves would be Worgen, who numerically are the only race with less options which are limited to their Worgen form. I do support Worgen players in their requests as well.
Other more lacking ARs may be due their share of additions before Void Elves(which realistically could happen at the same time), but Void Elves aren’t actually very high up on the list, even in comparison to other, newer ARs.
What does Blonde hair on Night Elves have to do in context of Blood Elves having the generic Elf brand?
Yes we are all well aware Selesnya lol.
You already got natural options.
I think it’s beyond telling if you see people arguing for more Void options and see that as problematic because they don’t support the HE agendas check list for what they want in options.
I don’t see the mention of Night Elves in that sentence.
And no, Blonde hair isn’t the defining trait for Blood Elves.
And that person didn’t have much of a point to begin with, not to mention it was borderline offensive.
Though this isn’t the first time you’ve posted other people’s sneers, is it?
For skin, now we’re onto hair.
You’re straight up trying to put words in my mouth here and trying to paint a false narrative here. You’re trying to quash other people’s requests because you didn’t get what you wanted.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/void-elves-need-more-void/864391/23
I’m completely supportive of more Void options for Void Elves, and have never said more Void aren’t okay.
As for your choppy reposting of my post and your quote, I’ve explained both impact and numbers.
I suppose other races with sheer numbers can’t have anything either, such as Orcs getting Dragonmaw or Shattered Hand options for example, because they would be too impactful, and we can’t have that.
Anyways I feel I’ve argued my point here well enough and you have nothing left to offer than sneers and more out of place misdirection, so there’s really no need to continue.
I really feel it needs to be re-iterated that blood elves’ “raw numbers” are literally less than half the options given to humans who had roughly the same number of options to start with.
It’s not even like orcs where they had quite a few less options than say humans or night elves prior to SLs.
Cool, and I support Blood Elves getting more options to bring them up to the standards of other core races.
I could support more options for VEs by this logic but you’d come out and say I and anyone else with my stance support disparity based on the fact we don’t support HE options being further explored on VEs.
What words are being put in your mouth you just doubled down on that stance?
I get that they weren’t arguing on your side, but it wasn’t “borderline offensive” I would think you of all people would recognize posts like that when you see them.
The whole portraying of dissenting opinions, especially well thought out ones as being offensive is getting old, when its really just a case of it hindering your arguments and people being upset about that.
Damn dude, shots fired.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb1Qe7Fhn04&ab_channel=GummyMemes
You’re trying to deny Void Elves of options you know are popular and are already supported on a thematic level.
IE trying to leave them at a disadvantage.
You are trying to paint the picture that I don’t support Void options for Void Elves.
I explained already why I found it toxic.
You’ve made quite a few borderline offensive posts in the past too, so I’m sure you’re aware of what they look like as well.
What hindrance?
We’re obviously not arguing within the same scope of objectivity.
Nor are your arguments particularly well thought out as you’ve had to move goal posts multiple times.
But seriously though, I’ve made my point so I have no need to continue.
Raw numbers wise I think Blizzard accounted for the HE community more than well enough, they shouldn’t continue to infringe on the BE main theme and then also take up the time and space from options that could be allocated for actual Void options.
And like the post that is irresponsibly being labeled as borderline offensive said this is the last bit of BE visual distinction.
I just find it so funny that well thought out posts get labeled as borderline offensive meanwhile they should know better than anyone what that would actually look like in a post.
The whole “that post was borderline offensive” just feels like an extension of taking this issue far too personally, you’re not being attacked because someones argument against yours was good.
They are supported on a thematic level on BEs its their main visual theme.
No I am pointing out that if people can support tons of Void options on Void Elves but be described by you as still not supporting VEs and
Then how can Void options in your eyes per your own words really hold much weight to you? To me it reads like they don’t you only care about the HE options on VEs under this guise of also supporting Void options. Maybe you do really support both, I only support a plethora of further Void options, that is still supporting more for VEs and hardly advocating for leaving them at a disadvantage.
There was 0 toxic about that post.
Considering your definition of borderline offensive basically amounts to an argument you don’t like I’m sure lots of people here in your eyes have.
Sometimes people move goal posts but thats not what’s happening here.
Blood Elves holding the generic Elf theme, exists in the same breath as saying between Thalassian Elves bringing VEs closer to that theme infringes on that.
Yeah. Agreed. Raw numbers wise they did pretty well. They only got slightly less than blood elves themselves.
But where the void elf options really take the cake is sheer impact. People keep bringing up orc males, but the reason there’s so many combinations for them is they split stuff into multiple categories and mathematically that results in more options, even if those options are barely noticeable. Beards became beards and sideburns. Warpaint and tattoos are separate. Nose-rings and earrings are separate.
Given the option between 40 new options that completely change the nature of the race and 400 options that are just options a race already has but split up, I know which I’d take.
Could really use work, especially in the colors department.
What, you don’t like piss-stain yellow?
They really dropped the bomb on orc warpaint, the only color that looks good is the white imo.
Where did I say Blood elf players rallied together and decided they had no problem sharing visuals of their race with the Alliance? Picking a race is a often a sign of pride in your faction, it’s perfectly understandable if people take issue with the idea of having to give some of those themes over to the enemy faction. Choosing to take it so personal isn’t a reason to come in here acting like like a starved homeless man over how little the Void elves have gotten in terms of player customization because they’re arguably the most spoiled allied race in the game.
Good. Thank you for clarifying your true intentions of doing your utmost best to support the Horde faction and could not give a damn what customization Void elves get. As long as they are deleted or at least forgotten and never get any more stuff right?
We are not acting as starved homeless men, we are making a request. Which, as I said above, you fully object because we are your ‘‘enemy faction’’ :). So ofc it does not benefit ya, but neither is your opinion objective or unbiased at all. Because Void elves are not the most spoiled Allied race in the game, and the options given did not have as much impact as people thought. Not when the hair, which is the most important feature on a character, were not even touched. Mechagnomes now have more total customizations than we do but are much, much less popular than Velfs. I have only been asking for hairstyles and hair colors, nothing else. Because those are what was not updated at all since void elves’ release and I consider it the most important feature on a character.
This 100% and giving Void Elves the entirety of the Visual Blood Elf thematic would completely negate any reason for choosing a Blood Elf. All races should have at least some form of noticeable visual distinction. Blood Elves have lost nearly their whole theme to Alliance players. For no better reason than I don’t wanna play Horde. This Blood Elf player would like to keep the only visually noticeable difference we have remaining on Blood Elves off of Void Elves. If that is greedy/gatekeeping so be it. If it takes being greedy/gatekeeping to save the last visual distinct customization for them, I will gladly step up to that plate.
I’m all for them getting more void options. I think they should get the ear size options as well. I’m a supporter of them getting black and white hair colors. If Blizzard is lazy and they want to copy paste hair colors from Belfs to Velfs I hope they get the black hair color and the three that use to be DK only. Those would fit both Velf and Helf themes,