I respectfully, wholeheartedly, disagree. You can play what you like, if thats Retribution, cool. But I’ve played Retribution most of 13 years spent on this game and survivability feels horrendous as of last nights changes. My Retributions last remaining use is sending his gold to either a feral or havoc so I can play something that can have a chance. The “if you dont like 16 25%-75% nerfs to your class, you’re just a bad player” is a really garbage take, but you’re entitled to have an opinion.
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This dude doesnt even play ret and keeps posting here. Please stop your kade up 100k wogs and fol dont exist you dont play the soec everyone here who plays knows the real numbers.
Anyways
Overall this is clear example of blizzard not nerfing the right things.
Nerfind dawn kills our poor sustained damage even more which they were supposed to bring up.
Nerfind fading light kills rets self sustain because wog does no healing. Before rework I got outhealind by almost everybody and now its worse. Ret feels extremely poor against casters and ranged and now that everyone insta dispells freedom it feels like it has a 2 min cd with how little you get to benefit from it.
Kill jv I dont want that talent to follow us around its done nothing but constrain ret for idk how long now. So idc about jvs nerfs
The 15% wings was a SL nerf I dont know why they are keeping it around.
Finally, I dont know if any pve rets can chime in but can you deal st damage without voj? Because in pvp you pretty much cant so that talrnt is now nerfed losing even more value for your extra hp. My main issue with voj now is that it feels clunky as hell at 4. I was one of the few that actually enjoyed voj on the ptr but at 3 and 5. 4 doesnt feel good at all. If voj is as mandatory for st pve as it is for pvp then why dont bake some of its base power into fv by default and put something else in place?
Overall the nerfs are bad but the biggest offender is nerfing the incorrect things.
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I respectfully disagree with that statement. I cannot imagine shifting to focus on nerfing core abilities (not that you said it, but what other alternative does Blizzard have?) would be benefitial to Paladins.
I’ve played all the classes - most classes consistently/semi-consistently since 2004. I’m not going to pretend I’m some Retribution loyalist, but I do enjoy Paladins more than most other classes.
The nerfs are justified…
What concerns me is further nerfs, which would be a sign of buckling to pressure. After this round of nerfs (again!) Paladins should be in a fine place. It would be a shame to overnerf. At least give the feedback and data a good amount of time to crop up results and normalize over a good few weeks before even considering any change for Paladin.
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I am 100% positive that’s on your end, not the spec. Sorry to say but we’re playing the same spec here and killing a ret is still very difficult. I’m almost never the kill target and when I am it feels like they waste so much time because of it.
You can disagree as much as you want, our survivability is good whether you die a lot or not. Sov and dp on 1 minute cds, bubble 3.5m, spellwarding/bop 5m, instant flash of light, and a small absorb if you take fading light still. We have a ton of defensive stuff, you dying a lot isn’t an indicator of ret survivability
Also that isn’t a take, it’s just the truth. We are playing the same spec man, how is it that I’m at 2.8k mmr and having no issue living, but you’re dying all the time? There’s a difference somewhere here. Edit- I checked out your ret because I was curious, and yeah it is a player issue. Sorry our spec isn’t immortal to carry you past rival but it is still very good whether you can play it well or not.
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They literally nerfed all of the correct things, it’s the exact opposite of what you’re saying here. They nerfed what we asked them to nerf (the modifiers like dawn/ire/etc). They didn’t touch baseline abilities (very good) and nerfed the modifiers in the tree instead.
That’s exactly what they were supposed to do, they actually listened. And ret feels really good still because of it, the only thing that feels nerfed is our ability to one shot (which is good). Our burst is still very high and our constant pressure is great. Try playing some new builds, exec sentence is quite good after the modifier nerfs.
What you’re suggesting would have hurt ret much further. Nerfing the core abilities is very bad, they should hit hard baseline. And they do still because they nerfed the modifiers instead.
It feels fine. Quit trippin
Not really tbh, 250k burst is pretty normal for a lot of specs in this game and is pretty standard this xpac. People just don’t like it when it’s ret doing it.
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WARNING… FUN DETECTED… SHUTTING DOWN…
I think that about sums it up.
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Ret needed to be nerfed. That being said, I’m concerned the nerfs are a knee-jerk reaction to the amount of flak Ret is taking on the forums and not well thought out, which if we are being honest is Blizz’s M/O. Instead of making calculated changes, I feel like they took an axe to something that needed a scalpel. We’ll see where we land, but I am most concerned about our survivability - I don’t think JV and Crusader’s Reprieve should have been touched. Coupled with damage nerfs, yikes, it could be huge… But, I could be overreacting.
Removing myself from the class I play and looking at this through the scope of someone who plays lots of games, I don’t like the degree to which Blizz makes sweeping changes like this on a whim - especially so fresh after a PTR cycle. It makes me nervous about the psychology/mentality of the team and really question their emotional intelligence. When you look at other successful MMO’s like FF14, you rarely see this kind of behavior and if you do, it typically happen during testing cycles/PTR. I hope it’s not a competency problem and it makes me afraid for when Riot’s big MMO comes out. Not trying to go all doom and gloom and say WoW will die, but this isn’t the same team of old, and they seem very alien/foreign to me.
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I don’t think it was a ‘whim’ at all. They took 4 days to implement nerfs because they were listening to feedback and making sure they didn’t over nerf ret or nerf it the wrong way. This is obvious because their nerfs are exactly what many were asking for (modifier nerfs rather than core abilities) and is the reason ret is still very good right now. It went from beyond S tier broken, to S tier/A tier.
It’s extremely good still and they deserve some praise for nerfing ret the correct way and actually listening to the community
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By most metrics, this was definitely on a whim. I don’t agree with you at all.
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I completely disagree. Ret needed to be nerfed, anyone who has a working brain knew it was coming. The -only- thing of question was how they were going to nerf it. What were they going to do. Normally they’re very heavy handed with ret, so people were nervous.
However, if you go through these forums and the arena forums you’ll see people providing very good feedback on how to nerf ret without killing it. They were absolutely looking at that, and nerfed every single thing we asked them to. And guess what? Ret is still extremely good because they did that. They don’t need to wait 4 weeks to nerf a spec when good rets are giving them feedback on how to do it.
Yea, still completely disagree. You have your perspective. I have mine.
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That’s fine, it’s just wrong that’s all. Devs deserve praise when they listen and actually do something good. Maybe play the spec in pvp and you’ll understand how good these nerfs actually were
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Well, good thing that’s like your opinion, dude. You’re free to change your class profile picture back to your main. No need to change it to a paladin then come marauding around here with a forum army and their “very good feedback” like that makes you credible or something. lol
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You can literally look up my paladin. I actually play the game on it, you do not it seems. Credibility comes from actually playing the spec lmao. That’s probably why you do not understand the nerfs and are getting upset at someone pointing out they’re actually very good and aimed at the correct things.
Hey, whatever suits your narrative man.
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I’m sure it’s a narrative and not a 1400 paladin crying about nerfs when they don’t understand them. No offense of course
Hey there it is! The personal attacks. I’m honestly kind of disappointed because of how predictable you people are. lol
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That isn’t a personal attack, just a discussion about credibility which you brought up I believe.