Congratulations on destroying raiding!

[Allolria-khazgoroth]

@Cicera-zuljin

but the M+ community is still thriving.

So is raiding despite it continuing to be a far worse source of gear than m+, despite requiring more effort.

It can only take so many blows though.

[Volley-khadgar (Volley)]

I hate Mythic Plus, the rewards should never have been higher than that of Raiding.

[Murphyzombie-dalaran]

lol check achievements i have 2100+

[Syphéx-tichondrius]

Also considering if you have a consistent group of people you know, clearing normal will take around the same time it takes for most people clearing 2-3 +7 keys in mythic +.

Heroic i’d say equivelent time of 5/6.

so yeah it’s def not gonna get abused that way.
Also prob going to be 1 Mark per Mythic +(most likely10+ keys) while raiding will give you 2-3 atleast per boss.

We could look back in the past which is prob going to be the system they will be designing this around.

• VoA Koralon 10 man: 2 emblems

• VoA Koralon 25 man: 2 emblems

• Daily heroic dungeon: 14 emblems

• TotC 10 man normal: 15 emblems

• TotGC 10 man heroic: 15 emblems

• TotC 25 man normal: 15 emblems

• TotGC 25 man heroic: 15 emblems

• Onyxia 10 man: 3 emblems

• Onyxia 25 man: 3 emblems
  Totall: 84 per week (this seems like alot of raids but you could clear this in 3 days) You were capped at how many badges you could have at once, so it’s not like you could grind these and stack em endlessly

While heroics were limited to once a day (around 7 dungeons if i dont remember wrong)

I think we will see a really similar scene here.

[Syphéx-tichondrius]

@Caelin-boulderfist

Yeah, show me your 2100 rated PvP player. Go ahead I will wait, I mean it’s easy right so you should have one on hand.

Funny thing is most mythic raiders actually went the PvP route for gearing because the raid system was such garbage.

Lmao yeah, its funny people saying its that easy, but then you see people who are hardstuck at 1200-1300 rating in 2s and 3s with 1000 - 2000 games played.

If Rating was that easy to get blizzard would do something about it.

@Murphyzombie-dalaran

lol check achievements i have 2100+

You have never gone above 1700 in arena rating (even with 224 item level)
I reached this rating on my enh shaman with 200 item level with a boomie that were the same item level, our comp is extremely bad. He’s also playing kyrian which means he can’t go and oneshot with convoke which is super common

The only character you have reached rival on is a boomie in Rattlebattleground that you got carried in. considering your winloss ratio with the games You played with people who had a vastly higher mmr than you.

[Adreaver-undermine (Adreaver)]

@Allolria-khazgoroth

Raiding doesn’t reward failing a key. Raiding doesn’t give you an artificially inflated ilvl piece from the GV for failing to time a key. It doesn’t give you anything for failing.

M+ doesn’t reward failing a key either. Failing a key downranks your key by 1 and sends you back to the same dungeon to try again.

If you meant missing the timer, that’s called clearing it. Generally speaking, people should aim to push hard enough keys that they miss the timer on about half of them - if you are consistently timing your keys without an issue, that’s not a sign that you are some god-tier player, that’s a sign that you aren’t running hard enough keys for the gear/skill level of your group.

[Korolak-moon-guard]

I don’t feel very rewarded for any content except Pvp, and even there I feel punished until I have enough gear.
Getting 1-shot by mega-geared folks on unbalanced classes in a stun is not super fun.

Maybe I should retire and only focus on pet-battles…

[Rholkan-atiesh]

@Adreaver-undermine

M+ doesn’t reward failing a key either.

This is not accurate.

[Adreaver-undermine (Adreaver)]

Read the rest of the post.

Failing a key means you didn’t complete the dungeon, not that you missed the timer.

[Dagnie-turalyon]

Fine with me , I should suffer because I have a wife and young children and can’t sit constantly behind a pc for1-3 hours straight ? But I can play roughly 20 hours a week . Had no problem getting almost equivalent mythic raid loot from mythic plus last expac , why should this expac be any different .

[Wariya-stormrage (Wariya)]

@Allolria-khazgoroth

if they want gear.

Aha! Good luck in m+

[Galassin-stormrage]

Raiding was already killed. Let me just do one key a week and get almost mythic raid gear. I don’t get loot from raid anyway

[Ahmelyse-moon-guard]

But I thought raiding was fun?

[Kutski-blood-furnace]

So sick of entitled raiders thinking the whole game revolves around them.

[Flüff-dalaran]

If you like raids, raid. Elite players always act like it’s not about the gear, so don’t worry about the gear. Do it for the challenge! Do it for the being forced to play a particular spec you may or may not enjoy! Do it for having to show up at specific times like it’s a dentist appointment multiple times every week!

Yes, raid for the fun!

[Allolria-khazgoroth]

@Flüff-dalaran

Elite players always act like it’s not about the gear, so don’t worry about the gear

I’m not an elite player. I clear the raid once on heroic for fun and story and to get aotc. I go back every week for the loot.

@Adreaver-undermine

Failing a key means you didn’t complete the dungeon,

Failing a key means you weren’t good enough to beat the timer, which is the foundation of m+. But don’t worry, even if you’re not good enough to time a high key, you’ll still be awarded better than heroic ilvl loot from the gv as a participation trophy!

[Adreaver-undermine (Adreaver)]

@Allolria-khazgoroth

Failing a key means you weren’t good enough to beat the timer, which is the foundation of m+. But don’t worry, even if you’re not good enough to time a high key, you’ll still be awarded better than heroic ilvl loot from the gv as a participation trophy!

Literally not what failure means but ok.

I suppose you expect 100% winrate in ladder based PvP as well?

[Jayawan-moon-guard]

@Sentenza-alexstrasza

M+ is too damn popular to remove so people asking for Blizzard to walk it back are kidding themselves.

Have any data to back up M+ popularity? How did you arrive to this conclusion?

[Angrymama-zuljin]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/raid-loot-droprates-tuning-february-16/868343
There. The change is here.
1 Nathria Run = 2 hours = 20 pieces of loot.
That’s 1 item per every 6 minutes.

M+ is still 1 piece per 30m timed run, unless you’re good /w good team, then its 1 piece of loot per every 15 minutes averaged.
Hope raiders can stop crying now that their ez life is now ezier.

@Jayawan-moon-guard

@Sentenza-alexstrasza

M+ is too damn popular to remove so people asking for Blizzard to walk it back are kidding themselves.

Have any data to back up M+ popularity? How did you arrive to this conclusion

If you’re asking for back up data and disagreeing with him, do you have data to disprove him?

Because there is no data to disprove it otherwise. M+ is popular even on a pug scene, let alone guild runs, M+ communities.

[Allolria-khazgoroth]

@Angrymama-zuljin

That’s 1 item per every 6 minutes

Rubbish and misleading. The only important thing is the chance for a person to get loot.

The rate at which you can get loot is now the same as you get for FAILING a m+ key. Before this change it was even less.

Except you can spam M+ keys 24/7, whereas the raid is on a weekly lockout.
M+ also rewards you (still) with a higher ilvl piece from the GV for failing.

All they have done is brought the loot rate up to the same as m+ failure. It’s not enough, and still ensures M+ remains the easier and superior gearing method.

@Angrymama-zuljin

M+ is popular even on a pug scene, let alone guild runs, M+ communities.

Of course it’s popular. It’s the best gearing system, it’s getting buffed in 9.0.5, it rewards failure with participation trophy loot, it’s spammable 24/7 and it’s far easier in all but the highest keys than raiding.