This is where we are going to have to agree to disagree.
Doing something simple over and over to me shouldn’t reward something that takes more skill to overcome.
It’s the PvE equivalent of saying if I do enough LFR it should drop 226 eventuality because I did it so much.
Yup, people love to speedrun old games and WoW is an old game!
It’s way too late to put timers and rating back in the bottle.
Rating in PvP has been around since TBC!
You can just not do that content if you don’t like it though.
I vehemently disagree. if you want the rewards do the content in which they drop. doing more trivial content should not drop higher content rewards.
certain specs have been excluded from more serious content since vanilla. not into esports myself, but this is not to blame.
isn’t there also a large group of players that enjoy speedrunning raids in classic now too?
people love this style of gaming! which is awesome imo!
The key is to tune it accordingly with the duration of a season.
Ideally a person hardcore grinding to iLvL cap on a commitment system wouldn’t reach ilvl226 until the season is like 3/4ths complete.
no. they shouldn’t reach it at all
if you want the best gear, do the harder content.
no one should get mythic-level gear by doing entry-level content.
Its not harder content though.
Its a difference between having broken legs or not.
The content is fixed.
The vehicle you take into it, is the moving variable here.
I think this only works for PvP, and only if there was either a PvP stat like resilience or scaling item levels like WoD.
Giving 226 gear for random BGs that is great gear everywhere would be awful (in my opinion).
Not so sure i would consider rewarding that amount of commitment as “giving”.
But ayy.
sure it is, to hit the 226 gear, you have to have, what, 1800? 2k? rating, and i think maintain it to keep farming for the gear?
that’s harder than just yolo losing random bgs for honor gear
either way. no. the game shouldn’t hand out mythic-raid quality gear just for doing a bunch of random bgs.
Competition isn’t ruining the game. As long as there is some form of competitive content, be it PvP or PvE, there will always be some classes who excel in a given environment and other classes that do not. And part of why it’s competitive isn’t because of this esports mentality the casual community likes to use as a scapegoat for everything wrong with this game: it’s because it’s challenging. If something is challenging, players will always attempt to make that challenge as palatable as possible.
If you remove the timer in M+ all you do is shift the meta away from Boomkins/Fire Mages and towards something that trades damage for survivability (which would probably still be those classes anyway because they’re tanky as hell). You don’t “eliminate” a meta because no matter what there will always be something that is a little bit better at a given form of content than its immediate competition.
You people always look at the MDI like it’s the Mythic+ gospel, and there are plenty of similarities to the high key pushing meta. Fire Mages, Vengeance Demon Hunters and the occasional Guardian Druids, and Holy Paladins are all downright phenomenal, for instance. Nobody will deny that they are good. But what casual players fail to understand nine times out of ten is why those classes are so good.
Yes, there is a trickle-down mentality in this game. But there always has been, as well. The only tanks that meant anything in Vanilla were Warriors; the only DPS that mean anything in Classic are Warriors, Rogues, and Mages because the others tend to be so much worse. You won’t stop that by destroying any sort of challenge this game has to offer; similarly, though, you won’t be at a disadvantage beyond social stigma simply because you aren’t playing a class perceived by many to be “meta” in the highest possible keys or in the MDI setting where players are doing +18 dungeons like I’d be doing a +7 with my 8/10M, 220+ item level guildies.
They’re coordinated. They know when Combustion will be up and they will pull the dungeon around Combustion’s very existence. The +15 pug you will join will not be pulling about 50% of Halls of Atonement’s mob count in a single pull with Bloodlust and Prideful active on a Necrotic week. Your Fire Mage will not be doing roughly 120k DPS to that entire pack; maybe like 12k or something to a pack about a tenth of the size. Your Guardian Druid will not become basically immune to damage for 30 seconds because of UFR. Your Disc Priest or Shadow Priest probably isn’t cooldown botting your Fire Mage either. And you know what? That’s okay. It’s a 15. You could time that with some combination of five off-meta specs if you just play well.
Your Fury Warriors and Havoc Demon Hunters are still excellent in keys. Your Survival Hunters have some of the highest AoE potential in the game at the cost of having terrible single-target. Those Outlaw Rogues you don’t see in the MDI are arguably mandatory in the +25s keys being pushed on certain Fortified weeks outside of the MDI. Elemental and Enhancement Shamans have overcome their lack of good damage in an M+ setting with this patch and are now fantastic, albeit not top-tier, in keys. And Shadow Priests continue to be fantastic at all keystone levels, although they aren’t Fire Mages.
And in raiding? Affliction, Balance, and Shadow are the big three. That doesn’t mean you need to stack them religiously in your Normal or Heroic raid, though. Are they good? Yes, they most certainly are good. They’re excellent, in fact. But the content you and your friends do isn’t that hard. It’s very much possible with a bunch of more unorthodox specs as well.
Look at our Mythic Sludgefist kill from Saturday evening:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rb8Rkz46MQn1ZcKw#fight=10
Marksmanship isn’t meta for this fight anymore. It’s certainly not bad, but it’s not the absolute juggernaut Fire, Balance, and Affliction are. Unholy, though also top-tier, also isn’t a standout spec on Mythic Sludgefist. But Daedreth here performed very well, and Cauliflower and I performed exceptionally well, all the while playing specs that are not the uncontested kings of Sludgefist’s unique damage profile.
And guess what: you can do that, too, even if you aren’t an Affliction Warlock or Fire Mage or Balance Druid or Ret Paladin. You can work your way up to a Cutting Edge level and perform exceptionally well on Sludgefist, or Stone Legion Generals, or Sire Denathrius, or Council of Blood, or whatever boss you’re progressing on right now.
But maybe you just aren’t good enough…
Or, rather, you just aren’t good enough yet. As in, you aren’t currently good enough to join that 10/10M guild or that coordinated RBG team or that Gladiator-pushing 3v3 comp or that Mythic+ team of five players pushing +26 Halls of Atonement or Mists of Tirna Scithe keys and +27 Plaguefall and Necrotic Wake keys. But nobody is just born into excellence. They work their way up. You can do that, too. Every second you spend complaining about there being a meta is a second you spend not trying to join or reshape the meta.
I could review my performance on Sludgefist right now, since I have the VoD on Twitch, and could point out well over a dozen mistakes that contributed towards me only getting what was at the time rank 36 among all ~4600 MM Hunters and what is now probably rank 43 among all ~5100 MM Hunters. I can do better yet, and so can you.
Stop blaming competition for your refusal to want to compete. Competitiveness is healthy in any environment, be it the virtual World of Warcraft or that IRL job you’re doing. And when you’re underqualified for that high-end, well-paying job you applied for, why spend hours upon hours complaining that you didn’t get the job when you could build up a resume elsewhere or work towards the qualifications you need for that job?
You really think it was harder for Ret pals and Sub Rogues to hit 2100 in the first month of SL, than it would be to grind random BG’s for 4months?
Lol
This exactly. Everyone is at the same race but some players get a sedan and others a formula 1 car. Then you have people that chime in “But a sedan is a perfectly viable transport, you can get around the track just fine” That would be true if it weren’t a race. No matter how well you drive or how much you shave down lap times you simply cant make up the difference.
The problem isint with dedication or ability, It’s a problem that blizz has been so slow on tuning since pretty much every expansion that clear winners are showing while others arent even in the race at all.
2100, and your 2nd part to me is the most important problem with PvP gear right now.
You don’t need to keep playing the bracket with the rating to have is count towards your upgrade and vault reward.
You can sit the rating (like maybe buying a boost?) and farm your rated honor in a different bracket.
Gah meant to quote the guy with the long post about improvement, i suck on my phone.
Its funny to watch you folks form opinions that are clearly based off what others are saying and then regurgitating them and still being so wrong. Go play minecraft.
Well said!
In terms of skill at playing well?
Yes.
It takes no skill to play random BGs, just time. Which is kind of the point though they are for just some fun smashing.
But it doesn’t have to be. You don’t have to race. Why are you putting putting yourself into it then complaining?