Yeah, again, linking Esfand doesn’t prove a point. Maybe I missed something so if there was something specific you wanted me to hear that I hadn’t considered, let me know, because I am open to listening to your arguments.
The one part I agree on is auto-invite, I don’t want that in there at all. Even if it doesn’t do matchmaking, it gives people the illusion that it might, it’s just not worth it.
The real purpose it serves is merely as a bulletin board. A scrolling chat is a horrible way to try to advertise your group, ESPECIALLY when the servers are going to have more people on them (at least at launch) than they did in vanilla.
It would be no different from me taking a pen and paper and writing down every person who advertises their group and crossing them off when they fill up. You can click to apply, but you must supply a message that is then directly whispered from you to them and is then ALSO displayed in the addon. You can click to invite, but how is that different from a right-click invite?
This is why I’m so baffled. Ignoring auto-invite for a moment (which, again, the author has addressed and agreed is not good), what precisely is the problem with taking the ads people put in chat and displaying it in a separate window where it won’t get drowned out?
They speak of the importance of community as well, and they understand how this add on breaks that. Twitter, discord, reddit, they all hate this add on. Just a few people on this forum are railing for it. You are in the minority and it will be broken. hands kleenex
I agree. And so does the addon author, which is why he actually addressed this and agreed that even though it is not matchmaking and would not even attempt to form a viable group for you, it is too similar to automatic group finders and removed it.
I don’t think many people realize that the /4 LFG channel is world wide. In the past, you had to go to a City to find a group. That’s no longer required.
You’re either reading the chat messages or you’re reading the UI interface.
If the addon developer was smart, he would strip off all the bells and whistles to make it look as basic as possible. Instead he went the other way and made it look super fancy and the automation was just too much.
The more it looks like Dungeon/Group Finder from Retail, the more resentment and hate it will get from Classic players.
I don’t see why you can’t use the lfg already installed in game, even though it puts you in group with random 5 people it still serves the same purpose you are advocating for.
Well I disagree that friendships will be easily acquired using it.
I believe it will actually do the reverse make friendships less likely to hold as people wouldn’t have to worry about how they act to others because we have layering and bigger realms.
EsfandTV
CLASSICAST w/ OMAR & BRIAN TODAY @ 2PM CST
2 25 30
2 30 00 specifically when lfg is mentioned
The actual WoW devs, not some streamer that has no say in the game design, talk about addons and what they do/dont want them doing. LFG addon is fine because it isnt playing the game for you. Get over it.
Transcript from the addon portion of the interview. Cite: Timestamp: 2:30:25
Brian / Omar: We are more or less based on the modern code base, which has more or less the modern Addon API. But at the same time; there are some things that we’ve added to it over time that weren’t allowed in classic and we’ve restricted some of those; especially in cases where it affected gameplay.
So a really good example of this is castbar addons.
Castbar addons that existed back in patch 1.12 could exist but they were doing a lot of guess work and so they weren’t super accurate. So even though they gave you a gameplay advantage, it wasn’t as good of a gameplay advantage as the castbars that came later and are available in modern World of Warcraft. So we made sure we took back out that data so you still have to kind of go back and kind of guess at that and it’s hard to write a castbar addon again. You can still write one if you want, some of the hooks are still there, but it’s not going to be exactly as accurate as it used to be because that data didn’t used to be available.
On the other hand there were things you could do in the classic addon language that were basically… basically you could use it to essentially bot. There were basically no restrictions; it was a wide open field. You could completely control any of your characters actions, automate them all, and we’ve never really felt like automating your character was an appropriate use of the addon system and so we are keeping those restrictions in the modern addon system.
(Omar talking about Healbot)
(Esfand talking about decursive)
TipsOut: Because the game is so old or because it’s coming back after a long break. A lot of people know the mechanics now and it makes things easier. But at the same time, like you said, the addon api is a lot more modern now and people have the tools to make more sophisticated addons than they did back in the day. Possibly addons that trivialize things like in game boss mechanics, or even things like grouping up and being able to group up faster. For addons like this that maybe make the game a little bit too easy, or do things that are not exactly in the spirit of vanilla. Do you guys have any kind of philosophy as to how to address these kinds of addons?
Brian / Omar: The general philosophy is “If it automates gameplay we don’t like it to automate the gameplay for you. If it’s helping you see the layout in a way that makes you feel more comfortable for you to view and respond to; that’s exactly why addons are in the game. To make sure we can make the interface more comfortable for you to read and respond to. Especially for anybody who uses them to help with disabilities and things like that. It’s one of the reasons why we left in color blind mode. What kind of jerks would we be to take that out? And so we really want people to be able to see and experience the game in a way that’s comfortable to them, but we don’t want it to be played for them.
Except that it literally does not change how the community interacts. Again, no one in their right mind will group with randoms if they can go with people they know and trust. If you want to progress through current content on a consistent basis, you will need to have regular people you play with, you will need to have people you can depend on.
This makes finding your initial groups more convenient, but it does not make the content any easier. It does nothing to guarantee that the people you get are competent. It does not pull from other realms to form a group of people you’ll never see again.
This is a tool to enhance the group finding experience, NOT replace it. You still need to communicate and it’s still in your best interest to build a network of people that play well so that you can tackle more difficult content and progress. if you’re in a guild that regularly raids and runs dungeons together, it’s still in your best interest to run with those people who you know will stay around and who might be willing to pass gear to people who it will benefit most rather than just rolling on what they want.
Some people on all of those platforms are hating on it, yeah. Many of them do not understand it and are just egged on by that one video that was intentionally misleading, and unless you can provide me with real numbers on who’s for and who’s against it, I have no reason to believe that
And if you read my comments, you’d see that I’m not even fully convinced I will use it. And that I’ve said if it does have a negative impact on the game and community, or is capable of significant automation, I would fully support Blizzard taking steps to break it. You’d also notice that I said that even if auto-invite somehow remained in, I wouldn’t be willing to join any group marked as such.
I’m not emotionally invested in this addon. I think it’s a good idea and it could prove to be useful, but if I don’t have a need for it, I won’t use it, because I’d rather group with people I know.
I’m defending it because I’m sick of people jumping on the bandwagon of hate without understanding what they’re talking about, especially after they’ve been intentionally misled by someone, like the video earlier of the automatic group that conveniently left out the part that he arranged his group ahead of time, defeating the entire purpose.
The majority of people being against something doesn’t make it actually wrong. If it’s not actually against the rules or against the “spirit of vanilla” or whatever, Blizzard won’t remove it. If it is either of those things then I will gladly admit that I was wrong and cheer Blizzard on for removing it. But no argument I’ve seen thus far has been convincing and they’ve been full of misunderstandings and lies.
So they use an addon in a dumb and iccorrect method and then get mad at the addon…
It has autoinvite…
Ya because its useful in certain situations like he says… but anyone who has used the LFG tool in retail wow which works the EXACT SAME WAY, knows how the addon works. When you are looking for a dungeon like say a M+ you do not turn on auto invite because you will get a full group but it will be worthless.
Auto invite is for when you are putting together a group where the comp does not matter. Like a big raid on something(city, hogger, TMvSS) or when you just want some bodies to fill out the group like a bunch of fresh lvl 1s where you just want a quick group of 5 so you get mob tags and complete the quests.
There is nothing wrong with auto invite.
A hammer is a useful tool, used improperly it can hurt yourself… this video is a couple of idiots smacking themselves in the head with a hammer and complaining about how bad the hammer is.
What makes it worse is one of them was told how to use the hammer before, thought wow this isnt bad its nice and useful tool that wont be a problem, then saw the other guy smash himself with the hammer and throw that all out the window.
The fact that you consider a reasoned, thought out point of view to be nothing more than “bloated opinion” speaks volumes.
You know, I hate to do this, but one of us is here posting on an alt and the other is posting on his current main. One of us here has an achievement that could only be earned from PvP in vanilla (not that it’s a good achievement lol) and one of us doesn’t.
Us disagreeing on what should and shouldn’t be allowed in Classic doesn’t mean one of us didn’t play in vanilla. And yeah, I’m pro addon as long as it doesn’t take away from the game. There’s a reason they let addons in the game and there’s a reason they’ve taken ideas from addons to incorporate into the official UI.
If you’re going to try to insult me, at least try to make it accurate and reasonable lol.
i want to know wether they’re going to allow or not allow it.
i don’t want it to be allowed in classic. it needs to be removed and banned. if you wan’t a lfg or lfr queue timer stay on retail because 1.) you don’t understand how to appreciate the community vanilla fostered, and 2.) there’s already a LFg thing in vanilla it’s called /4, general or trade chat learn to type in chat and ask for a group every 5-10 minutes to not be annoying.